Life Changing Opportunities with Amazon PPC Advertising | Destaney Wishon

Episode Summary

In this Prime Talk Podcast Sponsored by GETIDA – Destaney Wishon CEO & Co-Founder of Better AMS, a company that helps brands on Amazon scale their businesses by optimizing advertisements to help increase clicks and sales. She also talks about life Changing Opportunities with Amazon PPC Advertising, also more information about her life's journey. #destaneywishon #betterams

Destaney Wishon: Co-Founder and CEO of BetterAMS - Her career in Amazon Advertising began five years ago when she got a start managing ads for some of the most well-known brands on the platform. Since then she has managed advertising initiatives for 100’s of brands, and a countless number of campaigns through BetterAMS. BetterAMS has generated over $100,000,000 in sales for numerous 7-9 figure brands on Amazon, and they aren’t slowing down! With a laser-like focus on everything Amazon PPC, they have been able to drive an average ROI of 409% across Sponsored Products, Sponsored Brands, Sponsored Displays, and DSP.

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[Yoni Mazor] 0:06
Everybody welcome to another episode of prime talk today I'm excited to have a special guest that I'm having destiny with Sean. This is the CEO and co-founder of better AMS, which is a leading Amazon advertising agency. So Destiny Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Super excited to be here. Our pleasure. So today's episode is gonna be the story of you right? The story of destiny with Sean. You're gonna share with us everything you know, who are you? Where are you from? Where were you born? Where'd you grow up? Where'd you go to school? How'd you begin your professional career, station to station until you reach where you are today with the world of E-commerce, and especially Amazon? So without further ado, let's jump right into it. Ready?

[Yoni Mazor] 0:46
Alright, so take us to the beginning.

[Destaney Wishon] 0:50
Like very, very beginning.

[Yoni Mazor] 0:52
Where are you born? Which town? Let's start with that.

[Destaney Wishon] 0:54
I was born in Rogers, Arkansas. So

[Yoni Mazor] 0:59
Far. From all, I always think I was Bentonville because a Walmart I think. So.

[Destaney Wishon] 1:05
I'm pretty near. It's like two cities over maybe like 15 miles away from Bentonville. But that's all we're known for. This whole area is the Northwest Arkansas area known for vendors and Walmart.

[Yoni Mazor] 1:18
Got it. Okay, so you're born there. And what kind of a family environment would like your parents were we're gonna Industries was involved with.

[Destaney Wishon] 1:24
I was born when like my parents were 1920. So they are super young. And I was the oldest child well, later on down the road, I am the oldest child. So I was born in a really small town. My parents were credibly hard workers, being so young and kind of being thrown into parenthood. But I never knew what that was like, my parents always provide the most amazing experience for me growing up, they're incredibly strict. And their number one value is not raising lazy kids. So that was kind of fun and affected a lot of who I am today. But yeah, that's the beginning and what

[Yoni Mazor] 2:04
Kind of industries there was working or which industries were involved with, what kind of professional work or work or were they doing when you're growing

[Destaney Wishon] 2:12
Up? Yeah, so my dad worked for Walmart vendors almost throughout my whole life, whether it was Coca-Cola, or Gillette, different areas within those industries. And he kind of worked his way up the corporate ladder in that use case. And then at the time, my mom was, you know, working two jobs and waitressing. So she was always, you know, on her feet, like really just incredible work ethic across both of them.

[Yoni Mazor] 2:38
You got to your father wasn't, wasn't working for Walmart. And he's dealing with all these companies. These vendors you mentioned, know fortune 500 brands, Gillette, park, and gamble. So, so this corporate world Yeah, in a way, I mean, probably one of the largest corporations in the world, even today of Walmart. Yeah.

[Destaney Wishon] 2:56
I was raised, you know, everyone around here has benefited from Walmart in some way. And it's the number one retailer so kind of we are typically all tied into Amazon some way or another but I was raised with perspective at like Sam Walton and Walmart was like the life-changing industry to be in so it's always funny comparing what I do in Amazon now with how I was raised.

[Yoni Mazor] 3:19
Yeah, the thing is very interesting that you know, have you have you're from Arkansas, this like Walmart bill or Walmart in a world, which created its base in retail, but on the physical side, now, it's kind of a China tag along on the online, e-commerce side, but you found success on the E-commerce and Amazon side, we'll get to that we're not there yet. Just want to sound like the environment you grew up in and what brought you to where you are today. So okay, growing up, were you involved in your parents were kind of, you know, conservative, kind of strict, even, you know, a lot of values and a work ethic and working morals. So that's great. But when you have all the antique entrepreneurs as a young person, growing up,

[Destaney Wishon] 4:00
Nothing to entrepreneurial. I mean, we were always working on one thing or another, like I'm telling you my like, for example, my brother's a marine right now. And he was telling me just looked like last week, he was like, I'm the only marine that comes home from leave and works more home than I do at the base

[Yoni Mazor] 4:20
Because he wanted to do it at home when he comes home. What is it?

[Destaney Wishon] 4:24
Like my dad works on classic cars on the side. So he was working on transmission the other day and we're cutting wood because they live out in the country. Like, I go home and it's exhausting. Like I'm so excited to see everyone but it's just like there's no stop. Like we're always playing basketball. My dad built a turf soccer field or backyard to practice on like, there's no naps or TV or any. It's just a high-energy environment.

[Yoni Mazor] 4:49
High energy, always focused on being productive being useful, not just being lazy or slacking off. Okay, so that was the environment and then school you're doing well your medium were struggling.

[Destaney Wishon] 5:02
I was naturally pretty well articulated and just naturally pretty book smart growing up. But I was I didn't know that discipline was the majority my like entrepreneurship came in is like I knew at 20 Back then I would do the math and like how much homework I needed to do to have a good grade without doing it all. Like, I knew that school to me was not a beneficial way to systemize. And I was like, this isn't gonna directly correlate in real life for me. So I was the person who always had A's and B's just because I had to, but I just did the bare minimum on the school side. Now, I was also playing three sports at the same time. I had a job when I was 16. So I was balancing a lot,

[Yoni Mazor] 5:46
But I was at a job at 16 I was

[Destaney Wishon] 5:49
Working at a sonic as like a sonic driving as a waitress for a year and then after a year, I got promoted to manager 17

[Yoni Mazor] 5:58
Guys this though Sonic is that the one with the only half skates or not?

[Destaney Wishon] 6:02
So I couldn't I was not allowed to skate because I was a varsity athlete at the time and my coach said I was gonna hurt myself.

[Yoni Mazor] 6:09
Gotta go so you got to exempt but you said three sports, which ones were they? Volleyball, basketball, and softball, and which one do you excel in or you enjoy the most

[Destaney Wishon] 6:18
I was a varsity starter and every single one of them but softball was like my lifelong. That's when I played travel ball and all the things

[Yoni Mazor] 6:27
Got to go Wow, pretty active way of working through sports. You know, if you're home, you know, you're gonna come in to do probably gonna get some chores. the school you're efficient sounds like you're very efficient with the school you realize you know, 8020 rule, where's the core that you got to get by and you'll be an ABA student which is good by any means. Okay, so after high school, would you go to your next session?

[Destaney Wishon] 6:49
Went to a community college nearby, I had a few entrepreneurial influences in my life and they were hitting hard on how much tuition is and whether or not there's enough ROI in it. So the kind of recommendations like I was going to community schools I was paying for school out of my pocket, my parents again very much trusted the value financially. At 16 I was paying for almost all my bills, so they wanted me to pay for my college so that way I value it more so being you know, 18 years old, you don't have 40 grand so you either take it in debt, get it paid for through, you know, amazing grades and scholarships, or you work hard. So I was at a community school working multiple jobs again and I paid for all of that school out of pocket and then I transferred to a full-time University and I got my general business degree with like, I think less than 10% of loans taken out and I've paid it off within two years.

[Yoni Mazor] 7:47
Oh somebody let me get the straight so to get an undergrad degree here in the United States about you need 120 credits. So what do you do you cannot 60 credits and a community college for you know, fordable price in the state you stay in the state in Arkansas and then you transfer the 60 credits to university or

[Destaney Wishon] 8:06
University of Arkansas

[Yoni Mazor] 8:08
got it and then instead of taking another two years to do another 60 credits you trim that down too to one year or a year and a half to do 120 credits and you finish college fairly quickly within like two years three years instead of four

[Destaney Wishon] 8:20
is still four years it's right across but I was also working you know two jobs going to school for full time and then I graduated I think with less than $15,000 worth of debt which does seem to pay off very quick

[Yoni Mazor] 8:35
So very very interesting anyhow you had the mindset of what's my ROI you know, what's my ROI but I guess they make a connection there is like did you have in mind what do you want to do after that? What are you gonna do to a degree was there a purpose with a degree or just you know, to have a degree it just sits on the checklist, and then I'll do whatever I want to do? What was your mindset?

[Destaney Wishon] 8:55
I was the first person in my core my family to graduate college so my parents never graduate college my grandparents didn't either so there was a lot of pressure from them to go to school. And you know,

[Yoni Mazor] 9:07
I'm coming let me set the parameters here. So first this historical Isaac milestone for the family I understand what your parents did what your parents your grandparents, what were they doing well what kind of industries they were involved with? Or something else

[Destaney Wishon] 9:20
Government industries both of them like work the different forms of like seeing industries

[Yoni Mazor] 9:25
Or so thought the ability to get the job back in the day there's no college degree requirements. This is uh, you know, what the old is as they call it? Yeah, today it's more like it's a good day even government jobs usually you need more you know, education and these days, so I don't know I never got a government job yet. But I would assume Okay, so first and the core family to do it and you got two blessings or was it the exciting was it like you guys, Papa champions, you know,

[Destaney Wishon] 9:53
Super exciting moment. They're very, very proud. Like, this big party was like a huge deal for them. To me, it was like, this is the worst experience of my life. Because I didn't understand like, I don't know, I could go online to YouTube like everyone entrepreneur knows that you can learn pretty much anything that you need to learn on the internet. And that's the mindset I had at that age. So the fact that I was painting what $1,000 of credit with absolutely insane to me, like I,

[Yoni Mazor] 10:23
I hate you because you're, you know, pretty young and you're connected to you know, the mainstream environment where you can learn everything on YouTube and online, but your parents felt the same way or they felt like you know, this is a, you know, our family's returning this is this still the way to go get a college degree and make it up.

[Destaney Wishon] 10:39
In 2008, when there was kind of a big round of layoffs, my dad got laid off from his corporate position? And when he went to transition to look for other jobs, he struggled because he couldn't even fill out the online application without a degree, you know, when they were first rolling out the digital resumes to hit that checklist. So there was no way around it. So when they went through that it changed their perspective on how important colleges are now fast forward my dad has an amazing job like incorporate because we've done it fully seen that transition the last 10 years and do you need a degree again, maybe not but at the time they're very adamant that I had to have a degree to succeed in the corporate world and they wanted me to go corporate to

[Yoni Mazor] 11:23
got it all out so 2008 The Financial global crisis the meltdown took a toll on your father's position with Walmart and then he had to kind of find this of another position that we experienced the real issue the real-life issue on the I guess the marketplace the job marketplace where you are competitive. So you have two people with the same experiences you know, corporate but one has you know, the diploma let's put it this way the other one doesn't have to go into this they won't have this Poma because that's kind of the habit there. You know, you know, figuring, I guess guessing or you know, thinking that it's gonna be a safer bet of some kind. So that you experienced that but okay, let's start to the years then. So what was the year that you were faced with that option to go to college or not? What would you start uh, basically going to college 13 to like three or four years after all your father experienced this foolishness his mindset was very adamant about you're going to get this you know, later on in life whether you be an entrepreneur or gonna be incorporate or whatever it is, you should probably have the milestone and you're in your back pocket. Got it. Okay, so to 13 you jump in you mentioned the Community College and University of Arkansas. Which year did you graduate so you're working all this time with Sonic or why?

[Destaney Wishon] 12:38
I was I had two jobs. One of them was bartending at the highest and Country Club in our area so the Walton family still attends there like a lot of the biggest names in the vendor space like pretty much all the C suite of Walmart attended this country club

[Yoni Mazor] 12:58
Super high end because Walton families if you put all their money together probably the richest family in the world. Yes, America these guys are you know, each one has a lot. So they're and although their CV sweet and brass of Walmart but any other successfully I mean, financially successful, like from other industries, or there's all like Walmart Ville,

[Destaney Wishon] 13:18
Pretty much every single industry has some form of VP connects based in this area to do business with Walmart. So I mean, we have the banking finance industry, their Donelle height of the JB Hunt is one of the largest shipping companies in trucking companies are still around, or JB Hunt died two years before I got started. But his wife who runs the majority of the business still was there like she was like one of my regulars when I was at the club. So

[Yoni Mazor] 13:44
That is super cool. Wow. Do you have any takeaways from there? No,

[Destaney Wishon] 13:50
it's probably the, I don't wanna say number one, but maybe the number one most fundamental learning experience that I have. I learned how to articulate things in a very mature way. When you're doing not business. But when you're serving this type of clientele, you have to be very, very confident, you have to be very well-spoken, you have to be able to like, maneuver those conversations because they know exactly what they want. They know how to get it. They've been very successful in life in this industry. So that was amazing. And then I was working so many hours a week because I worked full time there like 6070 hours a week that I got close with a lot of regulars and they kind of took me in and they're giving me life and business advice. So they were you know, telling me, this is where you need to go next. This is something they need to do. And that was awesome.

[Yoni Mazor] 14:37
That's amazing. But you said you had two jobs who this 6070 hours a week. And you know, this high end, you know, I guess Country Club, what was the second job?

[Destaney Wishon] 14:44
The second job brings us to my introduction into the Amazon arena. I got hired part-time as the first digital media intern at a fast-growing Amazon startup in the space and it was technically I think one of the first Amazon companies that started in Walmart world, so is a cool opportunity

[Yoni Mazor] 15:05
Because it rewards you do for them now, this is the moment where basically for you, I guess I'm for this episode, eCommerce comes knocking on your door, and you took it as a side job or part-time full time.

[Destaney Wishon] 15:17
Yet as a part-time internship, the company had an amazing opportunity in the space, they could sell anything to everything. And the CEO at the time had his private label brands. So he knew the ins and outs of Amazon, he was a top 100 seller, the best salesperson, I think I've ever met my wife. So I got started as an intern. But that agency scaled so quickly that within a year and a half, we were managing some of the largest brands in the platform because when your business area, you have a lot of connections, it's a very small community. And we had the opportunity to connect with some of the largest vendors on Amazon. So I went from managing the very small $500 month budgets to at the end of my time there flying out to corporate offices and managing $10 million a quarter

[Yoni Mazor] 16:06
Was all I knew we jumped, you know, jumped fast here? So from the internship, was that dynamic that enabled you I guess, when you went full-time, or was the evolution for you with that agency?

[Destaney Wishon] 16:17
Um, I, I went out pretty quickly. So I got started part-time and got trained on Amazon advertising through some, like old school resources in the space.

[Yoni Mazor] 16:29
And what was that when you got started on advertising on Amazon?

[Destaney Wishon] 16:33
2009 teen I think I was 20 years old, maybe 2121?

[Yoni Mazor] 16:40
Let me try to make sense of it. So he said he started to 13 until 216 17 in school, graduated after graduation during the country club for about two or three years. Ah, so the job that was helping you to get through college, you kept it out even after college. Yeah. Okay, now I'm standing, and I'm gonna get that. And then in 2019, you landed the internship with the agency Gardasil and it was summertime. Yeah.

[Destaney Wishon] 17:04
Yeah, it was close to that timeframe, I was still at the country club. Because I was just making pretty good money. It's a well-paying job. I enjoyed it a lot. And then on the side, I was testing out this e-Commerce Industry. And I remember walking in my first day and sitting in a meeting, and they're talking throwing around words, like firebox said, all of these things, I literally, it was like, I had never gone to learn this in my life, it was the most overwhelming experience of my life. Now, you know, the most beneficial, but

[Yoni Mazor] 17:37
that's the 2019 summer, like an alien, you come into this unknown space in a few months, you So how long did it take you to get the hang of it in terms of you know, this, once again, I just want to keep reminding the listeners here. Things are so dynamic with Amazon, especially with advertising, which he experienced in 2019. Today, we weren't 2021 more than two years afterward. It's a different universe. It's like constantly changing the data says the features are the objectives are still the same. Get your brand and your products in front of consumers in the digital space. But the way you do that they bring you calibrating, you know, keeps on getting more and more dynamic. So take us through those moments. I mean, how long did it take you to kind of figure it out? Or this is still a never-ending process for you to keep on learning every day?

[Destaney Wishon] 18:18
Yeah, one, I just realized we're in 2021. And I've been a better ms for four years. So I am off on my timing here. This is like literally, I think I was a senior in college got started 2017 2018.

[Yoni Mazor] 18:33
Graduates. Sorry. So yeah, can you imagine you also have the two jobs, but at the same time, so I figured it out a bit more sense? So you graduate onto 16. So 217, you got the internship, right? So and then you grow, you know, basically that graduated into where you are today. But you're also working side by side, or you know, for several years, I will say even two years, as far as I can stand with the country clubs, he said the front of the year too during the interest during the agency or until you detach without you with the touch with an antenna from the contract.

[Destaney Wishon] 19:04
Both jobs I think for around eight months until I realized that I understood this Amazon gig well. And it had a lot of opportunities there. So when I got the opportunity to work full time, it wasn't anything formal. It was just like, hey, you're doing great in this role, which is come on full time. We're growing fast. We have more brands to take on. I said yes. And I got thrown into a very, very rapidly scaling, like industry.

[Yoni Mazor] 19:35
So because you mentioned today you have you know, you're the co-founder and CEO of better MSO 1017. That's not the same company isn't or that evolved into better EMS?

[Destaney Wishon] 19:44
No, it's a fully different company. So this agency, I was at a scale too quick. And the easiest way to put it is that you do not know how to keep up the culture and it was a very, very toxic environment. You know, they knew that they could sell this Amazon magic to anyone, so we were pitching clients that we had no room to pitch and closing the deal because there was this, it was a blue ocean at the time. So I remember being, you know, 21 years old flying up to Stanford to have a conversation with this corporate company and seeing the slide deck. And it said, Destiny was Shawn and her marketing team, remember tilting my head and be like, I am the marketing team, there's no one underneath. But it was that kind of time in the space to do that. And they were just doing whatever had happened to close the deal, which meant there was a lot of pressure on me to make unrealistic expectations happen, I got used to navigating terrible client communication and unrealistic expectations. So

[Yoni Mazor] 20:42
In the organization, there are two tracks, the professional tracks where we manage the ads. And I want to touch that for a moment towards your evolution there in your ability to gain competence and create a result. But the second one was, you know, the organizational attack words, it's overheating. It's trying to blow up and then it creates all these, you know, going too sideways, basically, not, you know, the best path, which is honest patterns, which is sometimes the longest, but it's very ethical or very, very straightforward. No, no, no tricks and games. So on the professional side, on the output side, take us there to those moments, would you know, like, what was the magic that happened to you? Because now you're ready for use in and you're, you know, you're, you know, a dominant player in the advertising industry. I want to know, I want to capture the essence of what was the magic for you? Like, how did you get into this?

[Destaney Wishon] 21:32
I think I got thrown in. So I couldn't fail. You know, you can sit back and you can watch the YouTube videos and never jump in and thank you know, something, but you don't know something until you're given the budget that you are thrown in, and you have to drive results. So I was incredibly young, I had no reason to be in these offices, speaking to Amazon and having the Amazon advertising reps in these offices communicating with me. But it was trial by fire, I learned incredibly quickly. And like I said, I had that background and communication from working at a country club. So I was always good at relationship building and communicating. And then on the flip side, it was just actually, you know, walking the walk and talking the talk. So that's why I got so I don't want to say good, but I just had a lot of money to play with and a lot of time and I did nothing but Amazon ads, like for the last six years of my life.

[Yoni Mazor] 22:29
Got it. So yeah, let's touch that. What is this all about? If somebody's listening to this episode, you know, there might be a world diverse with advertising, some of them might not be so let's keep it simple. You know, if you've never heard of it, or you're not familiar with this, you know, tickets back to 2017. Where was this industry and the momentum with advertising and, if possible, where it is today, as far as your experience, you know, it's true,

[Destaney Wishon] 22:51
It’s insane. I would say when I got started, you could keep it simple. You know, you go to Amazon, you see an ad that says sponsored, you click on it, you buy your products, it was incredibly easy to run those ads, you just spit on keywords. And you know, it was pretty much so cheap and low competition at the time that even if you did do a great job managing ads, you could probably have a decent row as so return on ad spend. Now, over the last six years, not only has the whole industry picked up momentum, and there's more money, there's more competition than ever before. But Amazon's also realized, wow, this is a really large revenue generator for us. Let's make it better. So you know, back in the old days, you just have this really simple static ad that just was like everything else, and you bid on keywords. Nowadays, the video ads, you can add lifestyle images, your products category, all of these different targeting that makes it you know, 20 times harder to ever manage.

[Yoni Mazor] 23:51
Also, it seems to me like it because you have videos and stuff like that you have to also, you know, throw the magic of creativity and content, you know, creating content and mixing all that with, with the science of advertising. So just, that's a good example of sophistication that's taking place at the market level. And there's so much money pushing from behind. And also there's a whole bit of a bidding war, there's the World War Two bidding, as the things are become more expensive by the second so there's inflation and to that respect. And so the challenge for the retailers is you know, it's getting more expensive, how do you get a good return, and it's also the market is getting competitive. So nobody wants to raise your prices to sound everybody wants to lower their prices because that's what the consumer is all about where to get the best offer what I get this product for the best quality but also the best price on Amazon, it's easy to do it it's easy to compare your search for something, boom, boom, boom, you see the types of products the pricing is right there. You don't have to, you know, drive to another mall or whatever when you do physical shopping. So the name of the game is sophistication. So, you did how many years with the agency how long with the agency until what was that the breaking moment or the evolution moment? Where you could have better and better medicine? What gives you the confidence also?

[Destaney Wishon] 25:04
So I believe I was close to their almost two years, and I hit a mental health breaking point. I was in all ICU, I started taking anxiety medicine because showing up to work was just a very toxic environment. Like as toxic as you can imagine, it wasn't just the workload, I've always handled a very large workload, balancing multiple things, but also dealing with people that make you feel less than human. Because they're under a lot of pressure. I get that now that I'm like starting an agency in this space, but they did not handle it. Well, they were very egotistical narcissists, things like that.

[Yoni Mazor] 25:44
So the team or the company,

[Destaney Wishon] 25:48
The team, I think we ended up being like 12 people.

[Yoni Mazor] 25:52
Yeah, go all the same players, you will guys work remotely or? Yep, everyone is based out of Rogers, Arkansas. So everybody comes in the morning to the same facility,

[Destaney Wishon] 26:02
Same facility and working directly face to face with some of these people is very difficult.

[Yoni Mazor] 26:08
So a lot of drama comes in the mornings, a lot of tension, you can tear it out with a knife. Exactly. 100% Got it. Okay. So, um, this was affecting you. And that was that I created the evolution or that that was the more we had to kind of, you know, we had to wait for ourselves.

[Destaney Wishon] 26:27
Yeah, when I realized that my mental health was being affected to the point that I had to be on medicine for it. And I understood the correlation. I started looking for no job. And then at that time, I came across this presentation on YouTube from Taylor bitterroot, where he was speaking at global sources. And I was like, these kids my age, you know, the early 20s, talking about Amazon ads, how cool is that? So I ended up looking at his, you know, a company named better AMS plot, I ended up working for him as an account executive. And then fast forward a year and a half, he kind of stepped away from the company to work on a few other projects. He's like, do you want to keep running it, go for it. And I really kind of resonated with that. And I took it and ran with it, I failed a company from I think at the time, like 20,000 to 50,000. MRR and that's what it entails, like, oh, we have an opportunity here. Like we have a great partnership. And I've worked incredibly well together and haven't looked back since

[Yoni Mazor] 27:30
You became a business owner. That's when

[Destaney Wishon] 27:32
Yeah, it was a very natural progression. It wasn't so much a holy crap. You know, forget

[Yoni Mazor] 27:39
Yannick. It was real, it was authentic, because like I'm maturing, I'm fit. I'm starting to go through this outfit. And it feels comfortable. I feel like I know what I'm doing. It's all good. But I want to throw it back to your parents. Were they aware? Would they, you know, where you discuss with them or was there?

[Destaney Wishon] 27:53
They didn't love it. So I was like, Hey, I found this kid on a Panama, I think I'm going to try to get a job with him. And my dad sits me down. And he was like, this is not a good business decision. Like one, he's based on an animal. And in two, he's your age, there's no telling what will happen. So I reached out to some of my old contacts, and you know, the country club and things like that, and had a few meetings with them. And the biggest takeaway I got was, look, you're young. If you're ever going to take a risk like this, now is the time to do it. Don't go into corporate America, America, you have the rest of your life to do that. If you fail, take this opportunity and see what happens.

[Yoni Mazor] 28:32
God saw us with Taylor, you met him? Where he saw him somewhere and then you reached out or what was the moment? Did you discover each other?

[Destaney Wishon] 28:41
I was looking at, you know, YouTube presentations for Amazon ads. And he had pressed into the global sources and I came across

[Yoni Mazor] 28:48
Sources is the one that's in Hong Kong with Megillah, right? Yes, it does. I mean, it says the pandemic I think it's put on hold. But so you presented it, they recorded it. And it was on YouTube. Yeah, exactly. As you said earlier in YouTube, you can find so many things and educated stuff in the real world as opposed to the academic world, both important, but you can get interesting things, you know, on YouTube, so that compelled you just to reach out and say, hey, just via email via Facebook, I do reach out.

[Destaney Wishon] 29:18
Surely I like creped on. I tagged me and started looking at all these different things that ended up landing on his website where I saw he was hiring,

[Yoni Mazor] 29:29
Or just or so you didn't reach out to me, so I was hoping to apply. Yep, I applied. Did you realize that you lived in Panama?

[Destaney Wishon] 29:37
No, I thought he lived in I don't even know if he knows this. I thought he lived in Florida. And I remember after I kind of got hired and I was trading I was like, Oh, I can just drive down you know, to Florida and like I couldn't train in person. He goes you're gonna drive to the jungle. I know. Yeah. So yeah.

[Yoni Mazor] 29:59
So that was the So Let's talk to Tiller for a minute for a moment. So he's American. So what he's doing in Panama, what's the story there?

[Destaney Wishon] 03:09
Tend to be born and raised in Canada and North America. Sorry, yeah. He

[Destaney Wishon] 30:15
He is the, you know, perfect entrepreneurial, like, I'm moving out at 19 years old going to Panama, because I know I'm going to start an agency. And we'll see what happens, like move out, didn't know how to speak Spanish didn't know anything was just like, we're gonna make it happen. But you knew that you wanted to make an agency in the Amazon e-commerce space, or just Jenna's agency in general, like, what's the background? Um, he was at the time doing, Amazon work, his dad bought a seller central account, and Taylor ran the ads and started to learn about it, and then started to learn about the industry. So he knew there was an opportunity there. So when you apply it to better ms, how old was a company?

[Yoni Mazor] 30:56
Um, I two years, maybe two years. And this one year did you get in 2019?

[Destaney Wishon] 31:05
I've been with him for almost four and a half years now. So throughout

[Destaney Wishon] 31:11
my math is off somewhere. But yes.

[Yoni Mazor] 31:14
So 2017. So let me get this straight. We got from 2013 until the 1617 year in school Country Club. Also, with the agency, you got your kind of, you know, the first experience and then down into the water to 17, you already approached better mess, you click with a tailor. And from that moment on,

[Destaney Wishon] 31:36
You know, you would better Ms. But How soon did this happen? This is the moment you start with better and better Ms. until there was like, you know, let's do this together and become a partner. How long was three days, three weeks, a few months? So I think I was working with him for almost 12 months. So we were stable, um, but we weren't actively growing. He was kind of, you know, just young, scrappy, you know, we're just, we're still really, really young. At this point, we're just taking advantage of being able to work from home, be flexible, and have decent clients. And then a year in, he comes to me, and we hop on a call. And he's like, Hey, I think I want to start a course, on advertising course, with Sean Smith. He was like, I don't want to completely leave you hanging, you know, but I'm letting you know, I'm not going to be done involved with the side of the business, then it was a very scary moment in my life. Because I get I didn't have the confidence to start on my own. But he was like, Look, I'll help you. I'll send you some sales books, things like that help you get started, but feel free to do what you want with it. And I was like, okay, so he went in did this course with Shawn, it went well. In the meantime, I started posting on LinkedIn connecting with people and trying to get into the sales side of the industry.

[Yoni Mazor] 32:55
And it went well, in all, this is 2020 already, right? When you are, you know, 12 months, and this is 2020. But this is not is much earlier this year. So 2018 to 2019, you dive in and I want to touch base to get to the junction where you had kind of two sides here, like your parents, which kind of hazy about it, right? They're not feeling so comfortable. But the other side of the country club, you know, there's very highly successful, you know, you know, people in the business world Senate telling you, they evaluate you, they know you're ready, right, you have a relationship, so you should go for it. And you chose that advice. Right? It's interesting to see how the dynamics of your life shifted and push you to that dimension. Okay, so 2018 in terms of vendor,

[Destaney Wishon] 33:39
And 2018, and the past three years, how to go well, what was the evolution there? How big did the team, the team get? What kind of culture do you try to create? What was the touch about the evolution of brims and your experience as a business owner? Yeah, so I started scaling the company and signing some clients, but it was still just me. So you know, Taylor was hopping in from an operational perspective, he's very much an integrator, he's great at building you know, workarounds and he built a lot of efficiencies within the company manage our VA team, things like that. But in terms of managing clients, it was me so we feel pretty quickly and we got to a point where I was like, I can't do anything else My time is like gone like I have a full client load I'm also hopping into sales things like that to start seeing the value of attraction we're picking up and around that time he ended up selling the course his portion of the course and he was like let's go all-in on this. So it came back to home base it sounds like yep, he came back to home base so how long was the took a hiatus, or is it for a long time? It was less than a year I think in all honesty, I mean, everything is blurry because it's gone so quickly. And

[Yoni Mazor] 34:54
If you want them set up like dandy commerce is with like a year in the conventional world. So for years like

[Destaney Wishon] 35:00
For engineers, it's a lot to embody because things move so fast. So he came back again around 2019. Yeah. Okay, so you buy both the line? And what was your focus? What was his focus? And how'd you build the team? And how big is it today? Take us there. So I'm very much the visionary. I am the social aspect, more of the marketer and the Amazon advertising strategist. He hasn't been in accounts in three to four years. He is the integrator, though. He is incredible. And he's the risk-taker. So we have a really good balance of like him having the competence of pushing me to have the confidence to go out and get whatever is possible. So we, you know, came together after that meeting and decided we need to hire an employee, we hired our first director, um, and it's just been insane.

[Destaney Wishon] 35:52
Still to this day, so we kind of like, go ahead. Yeah, I just saw you when you said because you mentioned a few times where he's an integrator, what, what kind of integration are we talking about with Taylor, he had built up all of our back-end techs, he is really good. For example, we've been, you know, working on improving our recruiting processes. So he built out this full system that allows us to do inbound recruiting, we have virtual assistants that constantly scrape you know, LinkedIn to build these lists. And then we have a full system for outreach within these lists. So anything we need, I can count on him like, Hey, can we get this done. And it's done just like that. And you have backend technology, you guys write real code or software, what to do, what to manage the flow of the actual advertising or manage the flow of the business is both a little bit of both.

[Destaney Wishon] 36:40
So we have fully Christian fees for pretty much everything like client gifting for Systemizing, all of our team meetings, things like that. But on the Amazon advertising side, we have full like, bulk integrated macros for amazing at scale. And we are also API integrated for everything like bid management, keywords, and things like that. So internally, the tools that the team uses, it's what you have in your dashboard and system. So you know, there was the API to run the skill of all the accounts. Yeah, he manages like all developer relations, things like that. Good. Are you are him involved with the actual nitty-gritty of advertising anymore? Are you into the scope of what's going on? Other than admin, so you kind of you look at it from a bird's view, and get the reports on the field. I'm pretty bullish still, primarily because that's where I gained a lot of traction in the space, SEO, speaking events, things like that. I'm still like, kind of our enterprise sales for all of our CPG clients.

[Destaney Wishon] 37:37
So I want to make sure I'm well articulated because the background I came from, was incredibly toxic. And when we started sitting down and growing, our team is building a culture. I wanted to know part of that. I wanted to have the most transparent, honest sales process possible. I'm very bullish about not hiring a general salesperson. I want someone who knows, as they can look into account, say this is what's in your best interest. Like I want to be the most honest company and drive the best experience for everyone, whether it's internal employees or external clients, we work for stuff kind of how that evolved. It sounds to me like, you know, on the cultural level for you, it's this is a, you know, this is the most important thing you're very adamant about. And that creates, I mean, how big is the team now? So was this successful? Your insistence of being, you know, very ethical and very transparent and being a certain way, was this a bottleneck for you? Or is this or this action? The country is a good flywheel that keeps the team growing, and being a more similar talent.

[Destaney Wishon] 38:40
On the client relationship side, it's a really strong flywheel. A lot of people know us as being honest. And they'll reach out for our opinions, they know I'm not going to try to sell them. So it's been amazing on that side, as for on the cultural side, and just our internal employees, it's been amazing, we have a very strong retention rate across both where it's a bottleneck is we are not willing to hire someone that's even slightly going to sacrifice our culture. So we interview a lot of people because if there's slight misalignment like this, Netflix has an amazing book where they talk about how quickly one negative person can bring down the team. And we're small and you're in a completely virtual environment. So you cannot have that person like we have a lot going on as a startup.

[Destaney Wishon] 39:26
So that's where I say it has been a bottleneck in how precise we have to do with hiring. How big is the team today? This is 2021 years, 34 years into the mix. How big is it on the global level? We're 23 employees right now. Got it? Do you ever would imagine that you kind of start with you and me, why would you ever be so attuned I mean, if you zoom out on the story, I randomly met this kid in Panama never met him in person for a year and we end up being the perfect combination of partners from a behavioral

[Yoni Mazor] 40:00
Analysis standpoint, we brought in consultants like its perfect mixture of the visionary integrator. And it's just insane that what we've been able to grow working this many miles apart and you know, meeting up four times a year, it's crazy. This is a beautiful story of E-commerce in the digital age digital world where great talent, great people with, you know, similar ethics and work ethics and ambition and I guess the drive to satisfy their end client, I guess that's what jobs you guys a lot. And it just works. Because if rewind 20 years ago, this would probably not be possible. So this is kind of the dawn of the new world. So let's jump into 2021, your parents want you to talk to them. So they look at a four-year career as an independent businesswoman. Was their mindset right now? How are they?

[Yoni Mazor] 40:47
Are they looking at this? I would say they're pretty proud. They're still looking like this level of risks that just comes with being an entrepreneur that I think sometimes makes them a little unsteady. My dad's always like, have you looked at this? Have you looked at protecting yourself here? You know he's always concerned because he just doesn't understand the entrepreneurial aspect, especially in an entrepreneur in Amazon. Like, people don't understand what we do hardly ever. I don't tell people what my role is, no one knows what I do here. I'm like, oh, I just worked with Amazon. Like, we're like aliens. I know exactly how you feel like, I talked to my kids, right? I mentioned this earlier today to somebody at one of my meetings. But like, Daddy, what do you do for a living? I started playing just ecology, there's auditing, there are transactions, discrepancies are reimbursement. It's like, I say, I just help people

[Yoni Mazor] 41:38
Work in the morning to help people if they do something, you know, whichever, you know, get them with what they're owed. And, oh, I get that simple as that. It's not being a lawyer doctor was very definitive. You know, it's a very, like, boom, simple track. For us. It's a big thing. So. So how do you explain it? How do you dumb it down to people in your community? Or just advertising on Amazon? It's pretty much that is that's exactly what I say. And then the next question is, oh, no work for Amazon. How nice. And I'm like, yeah, it's great. So people thought I did, I don't sell on Amazon anymore. But over a decade ago, we kind of started selling on Amazon, we found a lot of success. So saying, I'm selling on Amazon, and people tell us who were Amazon because it didn't sound like there are sellers on Amazon, there's a third party seller atmosphere, because Amazon started as a retail platform you know, still, you know, selling their stuff. And still, they own stuff. But I think now, you know, the past few years been very, very

[Yoni Mazor] 42:31
Evident that you know, 60 plus percent of the sales are from third-party sellers. And there's a massive community in the United States, I think there are already too many more than 2 million sellers, 6 million all over the world. It's a whole culture, it's all seen. So we're coming out, you know, we're coming out of the closet, all those, you know, these eCommerce and Amazon aliens, that we're kind of holding off. Alright, so I have a question for you. So you mentioned you work in this high-end Country Club were very successful, you know, people did you sign up for that club and started attending it as an actual successful businesswoman or was that it's kind of the full clothes, you got there, and you got served by other bartenders. I'm not gonna lie, I applied. And I had all of the approval letters in place. But I never fully ended up signing up because the demographics are a little bit older than what I am. It's very much an old money environment. So, anyone who's familiar with, the terminology, old money versus new money, I do not resonate near as much as the old money side of the environment. So I did not, that's a good thing. It means you're still young, you got a lot of time to make even more money. And once you come of that age, and you have a little bit more time, money, and then so you go basically, to those places. Because sounds like you were drinking from a fire hose, and you get all these bottlenecks, you still got to take over, but it'd be very cool if one day you get that cinematic seating coming in.

[Yoni Mazor] 43:50
Yeah, you're in you gotta find you throw, you throw a big tip to the, you know, the bartender and hopefully won't be another young lady and, you know, you share with her the wisdom and the confidence and you know, pass it forward. Very, very cool. Okay, I want to kind of, you know, summarize the episode, see if we got the body correctly. Um, one reason Arkansas was we discussed started already, you know, parents, you know, Father Walmart, your mother was, you know, working two jobs, one of them was a wedding. So, you know, how working, you know, middle-class family, right. And then

[Yoni Mazor] 44:23
2013 started, you know, to go to school, you know, two years in community college, another two years in University of Arkansas, I got your full degree, we said it was a general degree, right. General Business got and then you're able to score position, two positions, and right? You had the country club, high-end, very successful people there. And then also with an agency that was involved with, you know, advertising on Amazon, that was, you know, e-commerce knocking at your door and pulling you in. And then after a while, you know, your company kind of overheated and that that puts you to another trajectory of, you know, finding another position you find Taylor

[Yoni Mazor] 45:00
Start working there. And within a year, you know, being there successful,

[Yoni Mazor] 45:04
You get the opportunity of, I would say, kind of a lifetime right to be, you know, honored to be a part of it and run it as a CEO. That's already in 2017. And then to those 2017, until today, four years, the company at least on the body count, you know, grew from two people to more than 20. You got technology build, you got clients, and you got a reputation. You're part of the community, you're leading it, and it’s got the story correctly so far. Yeah. 100% Impressive. No, thank you. This is your story. I'm just trying to package it, you know, trying to fulfill me

[Yoni Mazor] 45:38
With all the narrative, so. So thank you for that I learned a lot. It was cool. Now I want to kind of close the episode with two points, right? The first will be is if somebody wants to connect and reach out, where can they find you. So give them a handoff. But the last thing will be is, what is your message of hope and inspiration for entrepreneurs listening out there.

[Yoni Mazor] 45:57
Starting with the first one, and the second one, whatever you want. So also the first one because I want to finish off with a good record of inspiration.

[Destaney Wishon] 46:05
So for anyone interested in connecting, or just following me, check me on Facebook, LinkedIn, I post a ton of constants, Instagram, YouTube, if you're interested in Amazon ads, you can go to better ams.com.

[Destaney Wishon] 46:19
Very, very cool. Alright, so a message of hope and inspiration for entrepreneurs listening out there, I would say the biggest recommendation I can have is to just keep showing up every day, even if you're defeated, it doesn't get easier. The first day, you're always gonna wake up and have challenges, like even the scale that we've seen just a new set of challenges. And that's kind of thinking that the challenges go away, you have to think about how you can change your mindset to make the challenges easier to overcome them and see them as like an opportunity to take yourself to the next level. I mean, there are so many times within my story where if you would have told me where I'm here now, I would have never believed because I was so defeated. I was balancing so many things and so overworked but it all paid off. And you just keep showing up as it gets better you make it better you figure out your mindset and that pretty much everything.

[Yoni Mazor] 47:15
So keep attacking it keep going at it over time, you know, things will develop and will come your way and the right way. That's your story. Right? This is your experience. So you advocate for that. Beautiful stuff. I usually finish off at this point. But for you, I have an extra question. Right. Looking into the future three, five years. Are you bullish on E-commerce and Amazon is still an opportunity for entrepreneurs out there? Are they are we reaching some sort of a peak or a bubble? What's your take on that?

[Destaney Wishon] 47:44
E-commerce as the industry isn't even close to where it's going to be at the end of the day, from a consumer level. Consumers want things that make their lives easier. Supply chains are nowhere near where the retail platforms are at, you know, delivery, we have drone delivery, all these sorts of things, testing it, maybe stabilizing post-COVID. But it's not slowing down.

[Yoni Mazor] 48:08
Whether it's launching a brand or consulting or creating some form of tech, we're nowhere near where eCommerce to study in the next five years. Got it? So yeah, that's an opportunity, folks. Right if an entrepreneur because it seems like you're very bullish on this, I am with you on that. So I agree with that. Yeah, this is a great opportunity there, deal with it, immerse yourself in it, keep at it every little bit more and more and more, you'll find you know, interesting paths that you will hopefully be successful and All right, very good. Thank you so much destiny, best of luck. Best of luck and luck to you in the better investment team. I hope everybody enjoys this development the next time. Thank you.