Building a Following For Your Amazon Brand | Paul Baron

Episode Summary

In this Prime Talk Podcast Sponsored by GETIDAPaul Baron - Founder & CEO of The Chat Agency talks about Building a Following For Your Amazon Brand, also more information about his life's journey. #PaulBaron #TheChatAgency

About Paul Baron of The Chat Agency -

Million-dollar Amazon seller, Amazing.com instructor, ASM5 student, and a sought-after expert consultant on Chatbot Marketing Automation. His brands have received consulting from Shark Tank’s Barbara Corcoran, and have been featured on the Rachael Ray Show, and Forbes magazine.

Find the Full Episode Below

Yoni Mazor 0:06
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of prime talk. Today I'm having a special guest I'm having Paul Baron. Paul is the founder and CEO of the chat agency, which is a leading agency that helps Amazon sellers build audiences and convert them to sales, which is super, super cool. We're going to get to that very soon. But in the meantime, Paul, welcome to the show.

Paul Baron 0:26
Yo, man, good to see it. I know that I booked the last time I was supposed to be on this but a triple booked myself, so I'm glad that we made it happen.

Yoni Mazor 0:34
Today me or send me all good time. So today's episode is going to be all about you. So you're going to share with us everything you know, who are you? Where are you from? Where were you born? Where did you grow up? As you begin your professional career, station to station until you hit where you are today in the world of E-commerce. So without further ado, let's jump right into it.

Paul Baron 0:54
Yeah, so what do you want to know where I grew up? Yeah, again, they were where were you born? Yeah, born right. Born and raised in Colorado, I still, live here. And which part northern Colorado so if you're familiar with Colorado, there's, you know, like the I 25 corridor, kind of bisects the state, north, and south. And then we got I 70 that everybody knows because that's like the up-high 70s Like the ski resorts. So I'm about an hour north of Denver. You know, most people are familiar with that. Take I 25, the one that goes up north, and I'm about an hour north of Denver, so the outskirts of Denver, you can say? Well, I mean, if it was your deep suburbs, yeah.

Paul Baron 1:32
I mean, who is so deep in fact that it's not a suburb?

Yoni Mazor 1:36
Got it? Okay. Yeah. In the realm of Denver on the shadows of deep shadows of Denver. Cool. So growing up, like, what was the environment? Like? What were your parents? What kind of industry were they involved with?

Paul Baron 1:48
Yeah, so my dad, got his degree in graphic design back in what shoot the 70s? Yeah, the 70s because I was born in the 80s. And so that was back in the day back when graphic design was like drawing, you know, with a pen. And, you know, I like the Disney design, you know, kind of stuff, right? Like, if you're familiar, have you ever used Photoshop? Oh, yeah. So, you know, like, you build things in layers, right. Like they did that? They did layer layering, you know, that was like manual, you know, they have like a clear thing that's out there all the cartoons back in the day, it's super, super labor-intensive kind of work.

Paul Baron 2:25
And that's what he was in. Yep. So he, he was, I remember the longest time there was a position when in before it was all digital. Before printing went all digital. There was a position wherein the darkroom, it was called a plate stripper. And his job was to make, I don't know, my own, it was just, I don't even know stripping plates. So the joke was that he was a stripper was the because that was the

Yoni Mazor 2:54
Name of the Lambs. But that didn't work on any interesting like, well, projects or anything that you had this memorable at least you?

Paul Baron 3:00
Well, I mean, I always remember him having his like, art, his drawing, like hanging around the house, you know, little things, like, you know, like portraits and things and like still life’s and things that he would do. So, I grew up kind of in a creative, artistic, I am at heart I'm an I'm a creative.

Paul Baron 3:19
You know, I used to draw and paint and that sort of transition to I play guitar. That's my creative outlet. Asked my wife, she would say that she wants to be to play more often.

Yoni Mazor 3:31
But your mother was she was also, you know, into the arts, or what can I do?

Paul Baron 3:36
My mom was always singing. She'd always sing little silly songs, like just around the house, like seeing her day, like almost like, you know, like, hey, kids, how are you and like little things, like just a happy person. But she made my parents choose to sacrifice for us and have my mom stay home when we were younger, so we didn't grow up with a ton. Most of my family on my mom's side was on food stamps. A lot of people in my family. My family is the only family on my mom's side. My mom's side is all here in Colorado. My dad's side is in Michigan. And we're the only members on my mom's side that never lived in a trailer. I was growing up and trailer parks were kind of

Paul Baron 4:30
a part of who I am right. We didn't have a lot of money. I remember going to the grocery store with my cousins and having to spend special money on certain things. And special money was food stamps. I didn't know that it looked like it. You call a special one. Oh, that's cute for kids. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's special money. You can't spend special money on different things. It's only for food. So that was a part of you know, a part of my upbringing was we were broke.

Yoni Mazor 4:57
We so did that job you as you were growing up or

Yoni Mazor 5:00
Compel you to kind of try to earn money on doing things due to entrepreneurial or anything like that. You know, I've told you, I told you this.

Paul Baron 5:07
And I don't know if this is, you know, verifiably, verifiably genetically true, but I'm Jewish. Like, my mom found out that on her side, it was all like her great grandmother, and grandmother, it was like, all come down on my mother's side. But my mom was very forceful in the sense that, like, when we grow up our lives, we will do great things like you are meant for greatness. And so that was always at the back of my head that regardless of where we are, the thing about being poor and growing up poor is you don't realize that you're poor. It's just your normal, right? Yeah. So regular status for you.

Yoni Mazor 5:47
But hold on, you mentioned your mother and you're on your mother's side you're Jewish. So her maiden name you remember was an embedded name or last name her maiden name is Williams but it was down from it was like a Greenberg to I don't know something and then they kept mirroring out that but yeah, my last name is Baron and barons a Jewish name. I didn't realize that. Yeah, it's also you know, pretty out there. And the Jewish last names Okay, so there was there like a Jewish environment in the house religious at all are more secular or, more, more in the sense that like, what I've observed in my friends that are grew up Jewish culturally, is there's just this drive to succeed.

Paul Baron 6:26
Like, it's the mom and the mom is always like, you're going to be successful. And that's it. Like you are going to be successful. And it's like this expectation that you just grow up knowing that not only will I be successful, like can I be successful but I will be successful and it doesn't answer to success is kind of defined by you right? So it wasn't monetarily it was never really I don't look at success monetarily I look at it in terms of lives impacted and the changing the world like because that was her thing is like you're going to change the world you're going to do great things. And it was only later in life that that sort of took the shape and entrepreneurial entrepreneurism.

Yoni Mazor 7:09
So growing up your just wealth mostly focused on school are the sports music for you focus your mindset when you were growing up. Art, art sports, you know, camping like just normal boy things but when I was growing up, it was like art and sports.

Yoni Mazor 7:29
I mean, not a ton. I mean, my wife she played competitive soccer for like 15 years so nothing to that degree like she that's intense, you know, and yeah, it sounds like even though you said you know and financially you're not the highest means but yeah, pretty much regular childhood you know, all the stuff that regular child knighted states kind of focus on, you know, community sports are live, you know, it's fine, you feel good, you feel comfortable. Okay, so let's hit into I guess, you know, finishing high school and going to a gig you know, in the next session after that what transpired? Yeah, so when I was younger, I'm going to kind of hit on this I wanted to be a pastor. I remember from the time I was four years old, like a little kid.

Paul Baron 8:07
That was where I wanted to head like that I felt like that was my life's calling. And I, if you look at I mean, I could go there, but I won't. But like the, if you look at what it is defined as like, biblically, the pastor is somebody who helps people grow who, who nurtures them, and you name the word pastor is like the past something along that's kind of the meaning of the word, the past pastor or the past, well as the word of God or something, or just a trivia for myself on the fly. But we can deal with that later. And just wondering about that. Well, think of it. It's almost like a shepherd. Think of it as like a god. Yeah. Somebody who is somebody who gives advice, counsels people, leads, people, mentors, people, almost like, you know, it's like a, like a rabbi, right? Like, it's somebody who you go to, like, I, I'm, I'm struggling with this, and I need some help or what, it's not always. Yeah, it's pretty interesting, because it's rare. I haven't honestly, I don't think I've ever met somebody who's growing up realizing, you know, that that's what they want to be and have a passion for it. You know, looking back what compelled you to you know, want to be that? Well, it was a lot of the environment that I grew up in. It was, I remember one distinct time that I was going to sleep when I was a kid taking a nap. And looking out the window, and I still have it vivid, as I can still see, I can still see that in my head and just go about to go to sleep. And I

Paul Baron 9:33
Felt the word pastor didn't hear it. But I just felt like that was in that moment. At that moment. That sort of propelled me and so going forward into high school that had always stuck with me, right. And

Paul Baron 9:48
When I was in high school, and when I was in junior high, I was always doing things like running paper routes, and you know, being in Colorado when it would snow I would shovel snow to make money and when I was in high school

Paul Baron 10:00
Um, we had a shared family car, which is a Geo Metro family for this, my kids. So I had two sisters. I'm the middle child. So I was always causing fights and always putting up fights because you know, being the only boy with two girls, or do you have sisters? Yeah, too. Yeah, you pick on him.

Yoni Mazor 10:21
Just, that's just what boys do is like, and siblings, right, you give each other you pick on each other. So I had the Geo Metro, it was my oldest sister who moved out of the house, and I started a landscaping business. And I was using the Geo Metro, which are you? Are you familiar with those cars? It was one of those? Yes, Tony. I think I had one. I mean, my, my uncle in Michigan, and he used that and there's no it was an era where a belt like a belt is like, you know, it's like a weird. It's trying to do a ceiling. It's weird. It's a weird card. It's like a weird fusion experience experiment between General Motors and Toyota that started to create this joint venture called geo

Paul Baron 11:00
To make economical cars. But that was a flop and then really survived. But yeah, you know, to your point, when I was in jail, it was a three-cylinder engine with absolutely zero power. And you would,

Paul Baron 11:11
It would I got so many tickets for speeding in that car. Like if you get a ticket for speeding in jail-like you're trying to because it is not possible. So anyway, I defined

Paul Baron 11:23
Yeah, tiny car, think like smaller than a Fiat and I would put, I would break down a lawnmower, put the seats down in the back with a lawnmower in the back, and put the weed whacker in there with my cans of gas. And I would go and mow my lawns and make money that way.

Paul Baron 11:39
But again, like that was all just because, you know, that was how I wanted to make money. I go and I go and I make it. And that was always like, I guess that was a little bit imbued in me to at home be this concept that, like my dad, I would call him a he was an entrepreneur. He always wanted to work for himself. He always and he still has that dream. Now, he's about to retire next year in March. And while he retires, he's going to be starting a business because he's always wanted to and my mom owns a preschool daycare. My little sister, she owns. She crushes it on Etsy. She's in the top 1% of sellers on Etsy. Like firkin kills it. She's amazing. You know, we have our Amazon brands and then I have the service agent is Chad agency. And my older sister, she's a teacher, but she always does little side gigs. And like that sort of mentality of you're always doing side gigs side hustles I think it's just a part of like our family DNA.

Paul Baron 12:44
I'm not sure if it's, I don't know, like where it is. But it's just that's just a part of who we are. So like, every single person in my family either wants to or does run, my immediate family runs their own business. And I think that that's just a part of like, we're independent people like we don't want people to tell us what to do. Like, why would I work for somebody else when I could do it for myself, and you know, that sort of mentality? Right? Got it. So in high school,

Paul Baron 13:13
Because I wanted to be a pastor right after school, I didn't want to go to college. Like, I knew what I wanted to do.

Yoni Mazor 13:20
And so I went to Bible school in Australia. So let's start slapping the years on this. So while you was that when you were basically after high school and you

Paul Baron 13:30
Graduated in 2001, moved to Australia in

Paul Baron 13:34
January of 2002. And I was there the entire year of 2002. What were we doing there, right, I was studying to be a pastor, it was pastoral leadership, college is what it was all for that Wow, that's quite a trip. I did it because one of my friends two of my friends ’ really good friends from home, went there for school and they had a big music program. There's a

Paul Baron 14:01
A huge Christian music group or worship group called Hill song United or Hill song. Like if you're a Christian you like you know of them. And they had a college they were opening up like teaching people how to do like music and stuff like they did so my two friends were very musically inclined. I played guitar. It wasn't like that wasn't why I went, but they went specifically for that program.

Paul Baron 14:25
I had decided the year the summer of 2001 i

Paul Baron 14:30
When I graduated, I was originally thinking I was going to backpack here for three years. And the church that I was a part of at the time again because this was like very I was hyper-religious back then. It was very like that was my family. Well

Paul Baron 14:44
it was basically it and so like I didn't think about money, you know, I was an I was more on the side of like money's evil, you know like you know what I mean like, and I don't believe that spiritualism and less materialism you know, money is material exactly, per se distance from

Paul Baron 15:00
That focuses on the spirit. Okay, so are you in Australia, and then what happened after that year in Australia, I came home, I was actually planning on being there for three years, and they came home in my life, I felt like I was abandoned, right? Because I was planning on being there for three years. And I came home. And you know, when you're young, I was what I think it was 2120 2021 Stuff like that at the time. And

Paul Baron 15:25
You sort of have like this life plan, right? And it starts going to plan whatever your plan is, right?

Paul Baron 15:32
And then that plan changes, and you're young, it can be quite a challenge, like for you to sort of figure out like, what is going on? Like, what am I? Yeah, so yeah, shakes you up? For sure. Yep. So I came home when I was stuck in America. And I had, you know, built this life. I had all my friends, all my friends who were in Australia, you know, all of my stuff was in Australia, because I was planning on going back and I just couldn't get back to school because this was started in 2003

Paul Baron 16:00
Was December 2002. Going to 2003. That was when we had, you know, one of the first major economic downturns US economy kind of took a giant nosedive. My dad was trying to start a business during that time, and he didn't succeed. And

Paul Baron 16:18
He’s, he's a craftsman. He's not good at marketing. And so I just don't think that he could get business to come in. And so he had to shut down his shop and go back and get a job. And then, I think he was 46.

Paul Baron 16:35
Yeah, he was because I was thinking through this the other day. After all, I'll be, I'll be 40 next year. And I remember, he had gotten laid off, and then he started working for himself. The business didn't pan out, the economy's taking a dump.

Paul Baron 16:50
They were trying to refinance the house because when they bought the house, it was like this insane, huge economic growth. Like they were paying like 13% on their mortgage. Interest. Yeah, it was absurd, like a credit card rate. And so they were trying to refinance the home, would you save them enough to keep the home but everything kind of came to a head, and they couldn't refit so they lost the home, my dad, my parents ended up having to declare bankruptcy, and

Paul Baron 17:18
putting myself in his shoes now, you know, I'm, I'll be 40 next year, I've my I have a seven-year-old and a four-year-old son, or seven-year-old son and a four-year-old daughter. And

Paul Baron 17:30
I can't imagine that, like how hard that was for him. You know, how much that he had to like? I mean, that's a big blow to your ego. Yeah, it's enduring. So you got to take you to know, you hit rock bottom, and you have to, yeah, I would have picked yourself up and you know, get back on track and keep good vibes, so to speak, or harmony within the family. So the, you know, the distress doesn't impact to scratch the kids. Yep. So that was, that was a rough period for them for me, for all of us because, you know, my sister was just going off to college, she got it, she got a scholarship. So she was kind of stretching her wings. Meanwhile, I'm back home. I feel like I'm stuck. All of my friends are in Australia, all of my stuff. Like most of my clothes, furniture, and belongings. Yeah, you know, all my belongings and things are in Australia, because I'm planning on going back. But because of everything that was going on my parents had no money to send me back. I didn't.

Paul Baron 18:25
I had lined up jobs for when I was home so that I could pay for the airline tickets to get back. Every single one of those jobs fell through. So I spent

Paul Baron 18:34
For the next few years just figuring out who the hell I am like, what am I doing? And I believe, you know, I believe in God, I believe that God has a purpose for every single human, regardless of who we are, where we're from, that there are unique callings that we all have, and I feel like, at the time, I felt like, adrift, like he just abandoned me. Because, like, turbulence, yes, the turbulence sounds like yeah, you know, I was in my head, I'm doing this thing. Like, I'm going to be a pastor and it's all for you, God, and that's what I was thinking, right? And then, like, I felt abandoned, like, he just dropped me. And I was like, well, what do I do? I don't want to go to school. I don't want to go to college to get a degree. But everywhere if you want a real job like you got to get a degree like you've because nobody's going to hire you. So that was like that period was just like hustle, hustle all the time. Like I picked up a job as a loan origination officer. I say that very lightly. I got a little bit of knowledge and like the mortgage industry,

Paul Baron 19:39
My mentor and that sort of

Paul Baron 19:42
That ended up going you know, obviously didn't go anywhere. I'm not in real estate or mortgage now. Right? I did outside sales for credit card processing. You would talk about a hard job, like try selling credit card processing, walking into a busy a business, you know, cold call business owners

Yoni Mazor 20:00
Just show up and try to sell them stuff like that's hard. Right? So how many years are your kind of standard turbulence path where we just kind of try things around just to goodbye from 213 2003 and two, one well, all the way up until I was about 2728, which is when I got married when I was at,

Paul Baron 20:18
Shoot,

Paul Baron 20:21
See?

Paul Baron 20:22
Got

Paul Baron 20:24
Married. And yeah, it was in 2010 I got married. So I got married when I was, let's see, I was 27. So it's 2010 2007 2008 was 2006 2007 2008. I was I got back involved in it at a local church and I was I became the director of the community there it was, I did youth leadership, I did worship-like music. I built a coffee shop, I rent that i

Yoni Mazor 20:51
It was really like hard-core, so I sort of had my falling out, you know? Yeah, so So let's put that into place from 213 to 13, you got into the turbulence until like, 2007 Sorry, 2003 until 2007 these forces were kind of shaky, but in 2007 you kind of find your way back into the, you know, the church realm. And then you like you mentioned you were in charge of a community building a coffee shop and I guess,

Paul Baron 21:16
Financially succeeding in it at least or you know, making sense of it. So all of this is like, you know, my jobs at the time where I just said odd jobs like as a barista at my most regular job was either serving tables or being a barista. I worked at nearly every coffee shop in Loveland at the time, which is where I live, it's not a big town. Back then there were like, five or six coffee shops, so I worked at all of them. Now there's way more but yeah, so as a barista I serve tables.

Paul Baron 21:47
You know, I did construction. Meanwhile, my goal my heart's desire is I want to impact people, I want to change the world. I got me, my mom, you know, you, you're meant for greatness, son, you can do it. And I just felt like I was floundering, like, you know, living, you know, minimum wage paycheck to paycheck.

Yoni Mazor 22:06
Just crazy. And the hard knock life yeah, you, you can feel until something big is going to happen. But you're stuck in a position where you can't it can vividly see it. But you have to have faith and you know, keep on carrying on. So 2007, you hit into the church environment where you're you're six, I guess you're making something out of it. 2010 you get married, right? And then what to do from that point on? Well, let's go back to about 2000 2008 is, I met a guy at Starbucks, his name is Phil Hartley. And I don't know where Phil lives now.

Paul Baron 22:39
And I don't know if Phil knows, how much he impacted my life.

Paul Baron 22:45
It was like one of those things was just out of the blue. I was having this conversation with him. He was like, well, you got a real knack for marketing. Like, why don't you? Why don't you intern with me. And he ran a marketing business where he would go and he'd work with local businesses and help them build up customers and establish a marketing plan. And that was where I started to learn like, all of these little things like my entrepreneurialism, right? Like, I always did, you know, I had two jobs. But then I always did like the extra thing to hustle. And I was like, Man, I'm good at this. Like, I feel like I am good at this. And then also like, my creativity, my design stuff, like, I've been using Photoshop since it came out literally when it was in Macromedia like a flash when it was a part of that family, all those sorts of things like back in

Paul Baron 23:29
July of 2000 2000, the late 90s, late 90s 2000, something like that. So I had a sort of little knack for design. And I was like, you know, what, how hard can it be just design websites. And this is 2007 2008. So I started a web development company with my best friend named Jesse. And it was 2009.

Paul Baron 23:50
It's called barking pineapple. 2010. So I meet my wife in 2008. Around that time, we start dating in 2009. And,

Paul Baron 24:02
Or as Jasmine ate, I'm terrible with time doesn't eat as nine we start dating. I want to marry this woman. Right? And meanwhile, I'm the director of community at this church.

Paul Baron 24:13
I'm living on like, donated like people are financially supporting me like I don't have a job because my full-time job is the church. So like literally $400 a month is what I was making. Like nothing. I'm staying at a friend's house who is a doctor. And they're housing me because I can't afford to pay rent cost 400 bucks a month. You can't afford anything. Like I could barely afford my cell phone bill and insurance. There would be times when I couldn't afford to pay for my insurance because I had to keep my cell phone on. And so I'd be driving without insurance. And one time I got into a car accident. I was driving without insurance. That's for car insurance.

Paul Baron 24:52
Yeah, and it's, I mean literally, it's like $75 a month like you cheap car. I couldn't afford that. And so um

Paul Baron 25:00
I remember thinking, like, man, you know, I wish I could just make even 1000 bucks a month, even is just something right. But

Paul Baron 25:09
I decided, okay, well, I want to marry this woman. And I was trying to, you know, start this web development agency with my say that very lightly with my best friend

Paul Baron 25:19
Not making a ton of money doing that. And the opportunity arose, there was a position at a web development firm, a web development marketing firm that they were hiring in, in 2010. And this was after, during our very first remounted marital counseling session. I remember I had busted my ass for this job as I had done. The interview process was like, they took a real the real project that they were doing a free mockup design of a website, and the process did this mockup, and whoever the customer picks us who we're going to hire,

Paul Baron 25:57
And, and like, whoever's design is the best. And so I was like I put into they asked for one I put into, like, all this stuff, and I didn't get the job. And I felt like, this is stupid. Like I, I felt like that was it. During our premarital counseling session, I got a call

Paul Baron 26:13
That they said, Hey, we have a position as a project manager, would you be interested in that? And I said, Yeah, I could come in after this. In the space of a day, like my wife was working or fiancée at the time, she was working at a group home with mentally disabled adults. And then, on the side, she was doing appraisals, she was helping do appraisals for people. And it was like she was getting paid per appraisal that she was supposed to do. And it was appraisals or whatever.

Paul Baron 26:37
You have homes, and it was something like 20 or 30 bucks per appraisal that she was doing. And supposedly she was supposed to be able to do two an hour. Realistically, it was like, one every two hours or less now it was like, absurd how much money she wasn't making, and we were busting our asses, I'm helping her with that. I'm working on landscaping.

Paul Baron 27:00
And, you know, not making any money and I'm thinking I'm going to marry this woman. And I don't have any money. I don't know where we're going to live. We're going to live with our parents. Like that's not an option. The prospects look very, very limited list for this way. But in the space of a day, and this is one thing that like, I've talked to a lot of people about this like, this is one thing that I say like, like, we have this prayer, like these prayer requests, like we need jobs that we have enough money that we can pay our bare minimum and save enough to give to charities because we had a lot of friends that were doing charity work. And my wife will fiancé, that

Paul Baron 27:34
Premarital counseling, she got a job offer that day, in the morning. And that night, I got a job offer for $30,000 a year starting salary which again, mind I was making 400 bucks. Yeah, blow your mind off. Yeah, you're all sudden you were definitely yeah. So yeah, as you say, you know, the change, it can swiftly and you know, a single day or some dramatic change. That's amazing. Insane. We found we found that we had a list written down of the things that we were looking for, we were looking for a place to live within walking distance to one of our places of employment. And we had talked about it being a house, we didn't think that we could afford a house. So we were resigning to the fact that we get an apartment, we found a house for 650 a month, two blocks from the place that I just got hired. And that was where that was the first house that we lived in for two or three years after we got married. And we went from in the space of a day making between the two of us about 1000 bucks a month, 1200 bucks a month between the two of us insane. And we went from that to making $55,000 a year between the two of us. Now mind you, that's the most money I've ever made in my entire life between two people. Right? So fast forward a few years, I grew at that agency. They hired me as a project manager because I bought this is a marketing agency that you kind of, you know, you tried to apply it didn't go through, but eventually it did work at work. So they called me back. They called me back during that premarital counseling session and offered me a job as a project manager because they were growing pretty quickly and they needed, they needed PMS. Now incidentally, if anybody watching this knows me, you know that I am generally not on time for things.

Paul Baron 29:14
I'm like I've demonstrated several times in this already, I can't remember dates and times very well. And that is like essential for a project manager. I'm a terrible project manager.

Paul Baron 29:26
But I'm good at sales and marketing. I'm really good at like consumer psychology, right, and understanding the core driving motives that make people do what they want to do, right? Because as a pastor, right, if that's what you want to do, right? It's almost like a, you know, you're kind of like a psychologist and a leader and a mentor. So you have to understand what motivates people and help them right, right. So if you know that somebody's doing something wrong, and you listen and whatever, right? So sales and marketing came naturally to me and they noticed that I was good at that because within my first month I set up a partnership with big commerce that

Paul Baron 30:00
Was brand new at the time, and they had 12 employees, we had 11. And we grew neck and neck with them. And I set up a partnership with them.

Yoni Mazor 30:08
Where we were in Australia. And by the way, the Australian connection

Paul Baron 30:12
They were there. I mean, I don't know if they still technique are technically are but it was Michelle Harper and Eddie. I can't remember his silent partner, but it was

Yoni Mazor 30:20
Yours. Yeah, they were able to kind of, you know, really ignite. You know, being with Australians, but yeah, so. So you're doing sales and marketing, establishing partnerships? And how long have you had that position with our company,

Paul Baron 30:32
I was there for about two or three years, I think it was two and a half or three. And that was like, mind you, that was the longest time I've ever been employed by a single company because I'm good at getting jobs not so great at keeping them. Because of the on-time thing,

Yoni Mazor 30:46
That’s pretty good. Three years, and now you got married, you know, you're able to financially kind of making progress and send that what was the next station 2013, you moved to?

Paul Baron 30:54
So I was fired from that job. I think it was either 2012 or 2013. And I remember, it was a whole series of events that led up to this, like I was making a boatload of I was making a lot of money, six figures. I was the director of Channel Sales for this agency, you know, one of the original OG salesmen. And I was just feeling completely dissatisfied in my life. Because, you know, again, coming back to my core driving motive my why for existing, my wife or existing is to show people like that they have a purpose in life, right? That each that you have something individually, that only you can do in the world, and that it's not anything that anybody else can do. And I wasn't fulfilling that I was selling people, these commoditized websites, and the firm was so busy, that they were in such this massive growth phase that we all know this right, as business owners now, growth, on like, growth without proper systems and training can be killer, it can kill you. And that was the phase that they were in because there wasn't enough training to bring on people, there wasn't enough talent to hire project managers, and it wasn't enough talent to hire account managers. And so I would, you know, 80% of the people that I would sell within two weeks, they'd be calling me and saying, I haven't heard from my account manager, what's going on, where's my money, and this is just eating me up inside, right

Yoni Mazor 32:23
fell all around you with the growth create a lot of you know, dysfunctional things and you know, not stable, and, you know, it was kind of already affecting you in a very severe way, and you lost your way within that company and you buy for your purpose is extremely important, or that's the only important thing. So I guess you were not sharing too much too many tears once you got released. But what do you do next? What was the next session?

Paul Baron 32:46
Well, it was it regardless of the day before I was fired, I came home and I said I told my wife. And mind you, again, like my background in the church, like I was a very goody two shoes, I never swore. Now I know, I can give a sailor a run for his fucking money. Like, as I can, I can teach them. I can teach them, sailors, how to do a better job swearing, probably not right. But I came home and I was like, you know, I don't care if I have to work a minimum wage job at McDonald's. I am fucking done. I'm done working there. I can't do it anymore. I'm over it. And honestly, that was I think that was a lot of talks. Because if they wouldn't have fired me the next day, I probably would have stayed there. And I probably would have just kept dying inside every day. And so that's my message of hope for people out there. If you're at a spot where you feel like you're dying every single day, there's hope. And sometimes it's a bitter pill that you don't expect. And they, you know, they fired me, I had up to this point that was the most successful I've been and I tied a lot of my identity into work success. And so when that was taken away from me, I not only felt like a failure, but I started feeling like every single thing that I did fail. And when you start feeling like that, and you start identifying as a failure, it's different than failing and understanding that failure is a part of success. And that was an incredibly hard two years for me it was a really deep depression. And so this is what you 13 to 15 to 13 to 214 15. Yeah,

Yoni Mazor 34:24
Right. And your wife, what was your dynamic she was she had a stable job, she was able to provide income,

Paul Baron 34:29
Sort of, she was working, she was working for the school district and she was working for Reid. So she wasn't making a ton of money. We weren't making a ton of money. We were making ends meet because you know, we had a $650 per month rent. That's it. You know, our bills were very low. And I was just feeling like a failure because I was feeling like I wasn't providing like I had this life goal that I wanted to do this thing and help people and I wasn't doing that. And I spent all these years and I felt like I'd lost my way It was maybe it's like a quarter-life crisis really, is what I went through is like, what am I supposed to be doing? Why am I here? What's the point? And I was self-medicating through gaming, I was addicted to gaming. Because in gaming, I could win. And it was easy or is easier. And if I lost, all I'd have to do is start the game over and then I might win. Never is it? Yeah, it was, it was hard because real life was hard. And so it was immersing myself in this game. And that was perpetuating the problem because it would make me feel like more of a failure. After all, I wasn't doing anything in my real life. Right. So coming out of this, what broke, what helped break me out of this was my, we found out that we were pregnant. And I found out over text because I was at my friend's office where I was helping him with his eCommerce stuff. Because at this company, that's what I did. I was a marketing consultant. And I also did sales, right? So I had enough expertise to be like, Okay, this is what you want to do, blah, blah, blah, and I was helping him build his brand. And when I was done with my work, I would play games for a little bit. But the problem is that I lose track of time. And one hour turns into four hours quickly, especially when you're not in a healthy mental state. I was at the office at like 10 pm My wife is like, where are you what's going on, I have something important to tell you to need to come home. I kept ignoring her. And I remember she texted me that she was pregnant. And that broke my heart because that's something that you want to be.

Yoni Mazor 36:34
That's frontal. Yeah, face to face. Yeah, physically, you know.

Paul Baron 36:38
And that was the first time that I had acknowledged the fact that she was trying to get me to acknowledge that I wasn't healthy.

Yoni Mazor 36:46
So I'm sorry, take a moment to go and talk.

Paul Baron 36:49
But thankfully for her, and because of my son, Beau, she told me like, in our, in our marriage were married. We don't talk about divorce, because it's not an option. Just like a business. If you want to be successful, you have to choose it every day. And it's going to get hard. And if you have any quick view, it makes it harder to stay focused. And that was when I had to admit I have, I have a serious problem, and I need help. I need to get therapy, I need to go through counseling. So I agreed, because she had sent me a text and said I am not going to raise this baby with you in the state that you're in, you need to get help. And it was a wake-up moment for me. And it was necessary. I remember the first counseling appointment that ever went to. I was sitting on the couch and I just wanted cushions to eat me and hide me. Because I was dealing with so much. I just felt like a failure. I felt like a fraud. I felt like, my life had no purpose or meaning. And I felt like it just kept everything I did screw up. Like, what's the point? Why should I come? You know, why I care to try. And if it weren't for that I wouldn't be here. If it weren't for my wife, I wouldn't be here.

Yoni Mazor 38:10
You chose all my friends Oh, good decision yet. It's a lifesaver for sure.

Paul Baron 38:15
So that started me getting healthy. And because of the work that I had done in this agency for years, I was well connected with the local business community. And people knew me as a person with integrity that they could go to and talk to you about search engine optimization and web development. And so I started an agency this summer, I knew what I was doing. Didn't have any money, and it was just made grinding with my best friend again, Jesse. Grinding, it

Yoni Mazor 38:41
Is a warrior with the shoulder to shoulder you know, every

Paul Baron 38:43
The time he's Yeah, I'm godfather to his daughters. You know, we see each other all the time. And anyway, so. So this already was 15 2014 we start this agency called Catalyst Media Group. And I remember that the most successful month we had was in 2015. I think we made like six or $9,000 that month. And I was like, Man, this is great. Like we're, you know, that means that we could have $120,000 a year I was working nights as a waiter, just to make sure that you know, make ends meet when I'd come home from work and get back on and start, you know, doing web dev. Meanwhile, I see in 2014 My friend Nate was posting these, this post about how much he's making all this money on Amazon like no, I remember in 2014 He started uh, he started these posts like, hey, get these gloves on Amazon their X percent off and he kept posting a bunch about it. And I thought that he was helping a brand, but I didn't know his brand. And that he started that brand because it took a course. So then in March of 2015, He started promoting this course that he took and at first all my alarm bells went off. I thought it was a multilevel scam like, you know he's getting money to sign people up, and then like I ignored it. Like I watched the first few videos and I was like, I got excited. And I was like, I can't get excited about this because I got to focus on my business. Because if I don't focus on my business, you know, I'm working like 80 hours a week, right? Business and then waiting tables. If I don't focus on that it's not going to grow. My oldest sister tags me, she messages me on Facebook messengers, hey, you see what Nate's doing because he was a family friend of ours growing up you know went to the same church that sort of stuff. Same high school we graduated from the same school I've good friends with him now like we've done charity events now together were like, we get all graduates from Loveland high and we do like raise money for Chase. Super cool. But back then I was thinking, Okay, this is a scam if it weren't for him. Like he's if it weren't for his integrity, and I called him I was like, dude, and is this real? Like, how are you making money? What's going on? Talked it over with my wife.

Yoni Mazor 40:47
Ha-ha. So Nate, for me if I'm going to say this correctly, Nate is the one who brought eCommerce knocking on your door and selling on Amazon knocking on your door.

Paul Baron 40:55
Yep, yep, he took the course the Amazing Selling Machine, which a lot of people in our industry took that was the OG course, like, there's like every other course in the market, like, no matter how good they are. Now, it's, in my opinion, started with ASM

Yoni Mazor 41:12
as them as a cornerstone for many of the Big Bang in our industry that created a wave of entrepreneurs jumping into this mix, and in this industry, making it viable and successful. And that brought other great things. Okay, so

Paul Baron 41:25
What do you do we take this course, well, first of all, I talk it over with my wife. In my gaming addiction phase, one of the things that you could do to earn in-game credits was like completing offers, right, one of the offers was to open up a Discover card. So opening up a Discover Card didn't cost me anything. And I got a whole bunch of in-game credit. But meanwhile, I have this Discover Card sitting around with a $5,000 limit on it like, I'm going to see if I can increase that limit. You know, she's like, well, how are we going to pay for this course. So I put it on a Discover card. Got a $9,000 limit, bought the course, and put our inventory order on that card. Meanwhile, I'm working two jobs. And my wife is working at the school district again. You know, we have an infant son, he's six years old, or six years old, six months old. She's

Yoni Mazor 42:17
Seven today. Yeah,

Paul Baron 42:19
He’s seven today. But a lot is going on the real concern. Like if we, you were barely making ends meet now. If we can't make this work, like $7,000 that could bankrupt us that could make us lose the house, you know. So that was my mentality from the get-go because, uh, Nate, like he did 50 grand, is the first month and I was like, okay, he did 50 grand his first month, I can do 50 grand too. I mean, we didn't do it. Our first month, took a year. I think our first month was like, 9000. Our second month was around 9000. And then we did like 13 and December. And double revenue. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So like our first six months, we made 50 grand.

Yoni Mazor 43:05
And this is what 2015 is when you walk into the Amazon fray?

Paul Baron 43:10
Yep. So I'm, you know, dead set. We're going to make your money back. We got to hustle because I can't afford to make these credit card payments. Right. So took the course then it was released in April, launched our first product did the whole research, everything vetting, getting samples, everything. Before July 2015. So April, May, June, July. So yeah. So all of April, we're watching the course. May, June, July, May, and June were when we did all this stuff. Like it was looking back. It was crazy. How quickly we did all this Latin Expedia very first. Dude had the launch of our first product in July, on the very first Prime Day Ever. Like that was not planned. It just so happened that they were in stock. On that day, I think our first inventory order was 400 units. Now we do you know, in our peak season we do 400 units a day, if not more of one SKU. I know. So this is like, it's insane. Like we're in

Yoni Mazor 44:13
Our humble beginnings. But yeah, as you learned over the years, you know, it continued to grow. But okay, so to 15 you're in the market, it's kind of you breaking it in and what was the moment that where this was, you know, successful or in your mindset of realizing that I'm in this game, I can detach from the other things that I was doing. And you know, that evolution within, you know, e-commerce and Amazon and of course, the chat agency that transpired after

Paul Baron 44:35
Almost immediately because like I said, we did $9,000 our first month and that was the best month that we ever had at catalyst, catalyst Media Group. And I was like, Dude, this is crazy. And so I still had some clients that I was servicing but I slowly cut myself out of that within a year. And I quit serving tables about a year and a half after now. In my opinion, that was probably a little too soon, because one of the best ways that you can grow a business is to take 100% of the profits and pour it back in and not have to worry about paying yourself right. And we didn't know it, we didn't know at the time, too, we didn't know that there was, you know, we were super seasonal. You know, we find that out years two and three. And so, you know, I'm kind of picking up odd jobs here. And there's still like in the marketing space, but thankfully, because of my background, in marketing, and doing SEO, and you know, my method of selling is that I need to know for sure that this is going to be a good fit for people. So when I look into something like, I deep dive into it, like many chats, when that came out, I deep dive into it. And I was like, I'm going to learn this inside and out, I'm going to become the number one expert. And that was back in 2017 2018. I launched a course called messenger bot university because we were using chatbots, to get reviews, like our methodology was, say, you know, somebody buys, you know, this from us, this is just sparkling water, if people are listening to the podcast, you know, one thing that you know you could do is like, you could follow up and say, Get a free cookie for your whatever, right register purchase, get a free cookie. Like, if you gave somebody a free Yeti cookie for Ken they would do it. So that's what we were doing, we were giving people free stuff, for registering their purchase, then on the back end, we were following up and asking them for reviews. And nobody was doing this, we were all doing this through catboats. So I'm like, Man, this is this is crazy like nobody's doing this, I started teaching that one thing led to another, it turned into a course. And then from all of that, like I started getting invited to speak places, you know, internationally, you know, it's like, here in the States, you know, in Europe, speaking about catboats. And a natural progression, like people, who were dead started asking me, well, can you do this for us? And I was like, No, so

Yoni Mazor 46:54
let me get this straight to you, you know, devise a strategy and technique to use it to get, you know, to interact with consumers also, you know, grow the number of reviews and good vibes that you're getting on your brand's that which you know, stimulated sales, you created that solution for yourself that opened you up to lecturing about it teaching about a change about in that. And that was the moment the market came to you and said help us we'll pay you.

Paul Baron 47:17
Yep. And for the longest time for about a year and a half, two years, after speeches, or webinars or events, whatever people would ask me if they could hire us hire me to do it. And meanwhile, I am me. I'm producing the course. Right? Like, I had just brought on my executive assistant. So she was helping me make course material and helping do speeches and go through my inbox. But it was just me. And I'm like, No, I'm not doing an agency. I have already done an agency. I'm not going to do it. I hate it not going to happen. Because in my head agency work was Paul does the work, like all the time, and then it's me working all the time. And I'm, I don't want to work all the time anymore. Right? Like, I have a comfortable life, and our business is going well. I don't want to do that. So last year, the opportunity presented itself. Norm Farrar said, Hey, why don't we work together on something, and ended up starting the chat agency. He partnered with me for the first year helping me get off the ground. And now I own it, I own it completely. And that's where basically what we do is we take everything that we've done in the building using catboats to grow our brand, go friends brands, and now we're doing this for people. And you're so

Yoni Mazor 48:28
When you launch it, it was 2020. And then your 2021, you kind of you started playing 20 with Norm buddies when you want to kind of spread your wings, and you're off to the races on your own.

Paul Baron 48:38
Yep. And so now that our service offering has sort of evolved, you know, we are in the process of slimming down. Instead of having like this whole solution, like we have 55 things that we could do, because in my head again, bots can do anything like it can help you get a generate leads for sales calls, it can help you qualify the leads for sales calls, it can help you, you know, get customers to sign up to join your audience so that you can launch products to them in the future. So there's anything that you can do. We're doing is we're slimming down now. So we just have one service one offering and it's what we do is we start working with people, the lowest hanging fruit is a product insert. Most Amazon sellers, it's most of the time, look at their incidents as a bonus, but not as essential. And now with the way that things are heading, they've been heading in this direction since 2018. Amazon is always driving to add more value to their customers and make their platform more trusted by consumers. And that means getting rid of shortcuts that help people game the system to rank products quickly, using you know two-step URLs or rebate campaigns and that sort of thing.

Paul Baron 49:52
And the great thing about this like I love I've always hated rebate campaigns, I think they're bullshit. There's they're not a great way to build an audience. Because it comes back to the audience. And that's my perception, right? From my years of experience starting in 2008, nine, whatever, in the digital marketing space, the money's in the list, if you have a list of people that you can go back to and sell them stuff over and over and over again, that's your list, you own it. So obviously, you don't own Facebook, you don't own messenger, but it is one of many channels that you could build a list on. Ultimately, we're about as getting as many details that people can give you to connect with you so that you can go back to them and sell them stuff. Again, you know, some tests that we're doing now with, you know, partnering with email stuff is, the data that we're seeing is that on average, we can get $1 per person per month that's on your list. So that means if you have 10,000 people on your month on your list, and get 10,000 extra dollars per month, how's that. So basically, by going back to them and selling to them, again, offering them, offering them new incentives to buy again, whether

Yoni Mazor 51:00
you're putting away with all the marketing and sales and marketing activities, you know, within you and you and your followers, right and your list, you're able to aggregate the numbers and narrow down to say, you know, every person on that list, every consumer that's on the list, it's worth financially worth $1 For them, right?

Paul Baron 51:16
We're yes, we're still proving this out, like in our initial stuff. Like, again, this is when done in conjunction with email, and it's $10,000 a month a year. Well, it so says it's $1 per customer. So let's say that you have 100 people on your list every month that's worth 100 bucks. Now, there's going to be Fallout, yeah, recurrent, but it blends out Yeah, blended. And that's why you need to always be building and always be adding to your list because there will be dropped off over time. Naturally, because people are going to get fatigued, then there's also, you know, maybe your product itself has a lifecycle with the customers, you know, maybe your

Yoni Mazor 51:53
The trend, right? If it's bathing suits, okay, they bought a few times, and they may be, you know, they moved Alaska, they don't, they don't need bathing suits anymore.

Paul Baron 52:03
Right. So instead of doing like A, we're going to build you this flow, and it's going to do this thing, it's going to cost you this much upfront, it's going to cost you five grand to launch a product we're just doing, we're bundling everything in just one service offering. We're still establishing what our new pricing model is going to be. But it's probably going to be around between 1002 1000 bucks a month for this all-inclusive service. Because, again, what we're focusing on is building lists that result in sales for people.

Yoni Mazor 52:31
That makes sense. So phenomena, I'm an Amazon seller listening to this episode, whether I'm a newbie or ready a veteran, what is the opportunity, you know, that the chat agency kind of presents, that I can help them grow their business in a nutshell, kind of really dumbed down?

Paul Baron 52:47
In a nutshell, dumbed-down, we build you an audience that results in money.

Yoni Mazor 52:50
Yeah, well, what's the flow of that? Yeah, kind of the more you know, works, that that flow, the mechanics,

Paul Baron 52:54
So to speak. Okay, so not so dumbed down. So, yeah, that mechanic

Yoni Mazor 52:58
Does have to do that granular, but you know, so put some threads together and make it all make sense. Yep.

Paul Baron 53:04
So there are multiple methods, but it all starts with the insert first, okay, so you have to have an offer, you have to have a very engaging offer, right. So a good offer would be, you know, something like, let's say you have an insert, and you say, register your purchase to get an automatic, you know, three years extended warranty, that's $100 value, you know, to date, we've given away $100,000 in prizes you could be next, something like that. So think of that,

Yoni Mazor 53:30
As a dancer, something that entices them to take action, visit your website, or some sort of a page or a QR code that it wasn't taken to a page or

Paul Baron 53:37
QR code or web or direct URL. And depending on how you want it to function. I am a weirdo. I want everybody to go through messenger first. Because if I can get that subscription there, it's basically by them going to messenger and replying. Once they're subscribed, then I can go to those people that I can broadcast to them. If they get one-time notifications, I could send those messages for free. But ultimately, inside the initial flow, we want to get them we want to get their email address, we want to get them to this subscribe on SMS, and we want them to subscribe and Messenger. Now we're doing tests. We're always doing tests to see which is more effective, whether it's directly to the landing page or into messenger. And in the future, it may just be directed to the landing page, I don't know. But the

Yoni Mazor 54:21
Let me get the show. Once you get those elements or at least one of those elements, you're able to engage directly with these consumers. That's how you build them as the audience that's it.

Paul Baron 54:30
Correct. And now this is the thing too is if they are giving you their details, they're giving them to you, they're there, and they are proactively contacting you, as long as you're not doing anything or making any promises that are a violation of Amazon's Terms of Service. I don't see how this is in any way violating any of the TOS right like just saying register your purchase to get XYZ right. So again, like I have referenced this GoPro insert a ton because this is kind of what I'm modeling our stuff. My point is the off needs to be so good,

Yoni Mazor 55:02
Valuable, it has to be valuable, really valuable for consumers that can't be disputed, oh, this is valuable. This is helpful. You can't

Paul Baron 55:09
Like, okay, so like I'm working through this with one of our clients. So one of the things that he, of course, it closed slack. One of the points that he had in his, in his stack of offers was unbeatable customer service. And I was like, that's not, you know, take that out. Because unbeatable customer service is what everybody expects. If you're saying it's a great thing, no, no, you need to change it. Because it registers your purchase, and you get an automatic upgraded extension, you know, for a two or three-year warranty. Plus, no questions asked, replacement. Right, that's, that's you I guess that is the warranty, plus up to 50% off new products, plus automatic entry into our $1,000 monthly drawing or something like this, right?

Paul Baron 55:51
That's where you want to make it so that again, the offer is irresistible, that if you understand your customer, and that's where it has to start, you have to understand what they care about. You have to understand their pain. And you have to provide solutions so that that pain is gone. So if they're coming to you, let's say that they're buying a cooking set, why are they buying a cooking set? Is it just because they want to cook? Well? Why do they want to cook? Is it because they like making good meals? Why do they want to make good meals? Is it because having good meals, creates better family connections? Is it because by having good meals, they gain status in their community as a good chef, and people like them more. So if you can scratch that itch, that people make money in, in, in like these businesses, but we serve it makes money in either like health and wealth, like health, wealth, or relationships, right? So people buy for those three primary reasons. So if you can understand the core driving motives, the psychographic reasons why people do things, then the demographics sort them so well, demographics are there too, but I saw this

Yoni Mazor 56:56
Consumer behavior towards itself. Yeah, the consumer behavior sorts itself out and you're able to recreate successful engagement that is valuable for all the stakeholders for you or your company ran consumers, the marketplace like Amazon, or eBay, wherever you're selling at, it's all good. So it creates just a better value all around and for all the stakeholders. So if I'm an Amazon seller or an E-commerce seller, this is kind of the mechanics of it, this the value of it, and I think that's awesome. I do. And I think it's one of the most valuable, if not the most valuable thing you could do for business because you have a built an audience, we have a business you have, you know, trust you have, you can kind of keep launching new products or, you know, creating offers and stimulate your business in the very best way. But you can never lose that thread or that mindset of what are they thinking what's valuable to them, you always have to have that.

Yoni Mazor 57:43
And that is something that you're going to have to either, you know, consult with or to get or just develop over time because I think it's also very that psyche, it's, it's can be fickle, you know, it's even Amazon still working on that. Yeah, that's what Amazon is constantly changing, because consumer behavior and tastes, and flavors constantly change. And that's one of the unique challenges of just being a retailer and of course, an online retailer. Okay, so this is great stuff, I want to kind of start packaging up the episode and see what we got so far. See if it all makes sense. And then we'll head up to the final round. So born and raised in Colorado, right?

Yoni Mazor 58:14
You know, grew up in very humble you know, means and then in 2001, you finish high school and then the year of 2002, you're in Australia and you might say you're going to be a pastor or something you kind of recognize an early age and then 2003 You come back home, there's a financial crisis, then you kind of left you stranded in the United States and then for you know, for about three, four years from 2003 to 2007 You kind of wandering around doing all these odd jobs and making ends meet. And then 2007 You kind of you know, connect back with the church and be able to you know, be in charge of you know, the youth program and open a coffee shop. And but you still kind of you know, struggling to make amends and 2008 You met your wife who doesn't tell you both you're married and then within a single day as you're with Mary You know, marriage counseling, pre-marriage, everything changes you get a job, you know, she gets a job and then financial you are guys in a better position. You get that job from 2010 until 2013 was you know, your sales and marketing we were building websites stuff like that digital media. But you know, the fast growth and create a scenario where it's kind of decaying and you got laid off because you're not kind of feeling it anymore.

Yoni Mazor 59:20
And then from 2013 or until about 2014 for that year you kind of rumbling around you know you kind of have hit a low point depression, you know gaming not realizing what's going on, and then boom everything changes because you got pregnant plus your wife was amazing. You're coming in saying this is where you need to be this we are now if you want to be a part of the family you're going to you know kind of shift away and boom that puts you are through to the right trajectory. You got counseling, your friend Nate, are you able to bundle your know buddy up with him a C array recognize identify the opportunity with E-commerce and Amazon to take the DSM course and 2015 both of you guys are in business, doing retail. That's it. You know, the Magic Journey of E-commerce and retail kind of begins and then you taste the taste of success, you detach from your jobs. And you focus just on that. Over the years, you build volume, you build more experience, you build strategies on engaging and building audiences, that worked well for you, you opened up, you know, you build a course on it, you're able to kind of explore and taste the world and, you know, engage with conferences and exhibitions, and become, you know, a speaker, and then people said, you know, we need your help, and then you're able to 2020, you know, partner with Norm Farrar, realize, you know, you can create the chat agency, and this is kind of the solution you're providing right now to Amazon sellers. When you're 21, you spread your wings, you're doing this on your own. And this is the value in the opportunity of really building an audience and engaging with consumers. That's what kind of sales you need to do and need to do the most. So we got all the story. So far, Greg, get together.

Paul Baron 60:49
Yeah, way better and faster than I could do it. That's for sure. Nice, nice.

Yoni Mazor 60:53
So thank you so much for that, it's been a hell of a ride. Amazing. And I appreciate you sharing it also. Okay, so now I want to finish up the episode with two points. The first is if somebody wants to reach out and connect, where can they find you? And very shortly, you know, you kind of touched it earlier. But again, what is your message of hope and inspiration for entrepreneurs listening out there? Yeah.

Paul Baron 61:11
So if you want to connect with me, just go to the chat. Agency.com. so the like thee chat Cha T agency, our agency is spelled H E and C y.com. And yeah, my message of hope, inspiration for entrepreneurs is whatever you're driving, you need to find a guiding star. What's your guiding star is your guiding sir, my guiding star is like my calling, you know, the message that God is happy like he loves you, you have a purpose in your life. And I help people find their purpose. That's, that's my thing. So everything that I do backs up to that. So making money, I make money so that I can do that more. I make money I start businesses so that I can teach people how to start businesses so they can feed themselves. And that's my message, I guess my message of hope is that if you're going through a hard time, right now, I want you to find your North Star, find your guiding star, What's your why your deep, your deep driving desire, that's going to get you through this shit. Because it's, it can be rough, can be lonely, you can go through

Yoni Mazor 62:20
It will be rough, guaranteed. It made the single entrepreneur in the show, or in life that hasn't been successful based. And after that, it's all these failures and challenges, and things are just rough. So yeah, I agree with that.

Paul Baron 62:33
There's so there's hope. There's, there's light at the end of the tunnel. And if you're going through the shit right now, know that there's something good on the other side. And to get there, you got to find your North Star, you got to find your guiding why? Because if it starts, and money is your guiding why and you think that money is going to make you happy. And then you have all this money, and then you don't feel fulfilled. You might have moments of happiness, and spending money, but you don't feel this deep life sense of fulfillment and satisfaction. You got to have that North star. Because that doing your purpose, whatever that may be. If you accomplish joy, that will give you joy and satisfaction. And so you can do it. Just find a community, find people to talk to if you're going through a rough time. There's hope.

Yoni Mazor 63:21
Nice, beautiful stuff. So yeah, find your guiding star, your North Star. There's hope out there work hard for it. Money's not everything. It helps to get to your achievements and your goals, but just do it and do it hard. Beautiful stuff. So Paul, thanks again so much for joining us today. I hope everybody else enjoyed it, stay safe and healthy the next time.