How Norm Farrar Got Into Selling on Amazon | Norm Farrar

Episode Summary

In this Prime Talk Podcast Sponsored by GETIDA – Norm Farrar - Co-Founder of Private Label Legion talks about how he got Into selling on Amazon, also more information about his life's journey.

About Norm Farrar of  Private Label Legion 

Entrepreneur and businessman Norman “The Beard Guy” Farrar stands at the forefront of the economic mega-machine known as Amazon Marketplace. As a leading expert with over 25 years of product sourcing, development, and branding expertise, Norm is an advisor to many and an inspiration to all.

As a creative innovator and brand strategist, Norm is highly adept at corporate transformation, business strategy, and driving brand growth. He is a decisive, results-focused leader who develops innovative approaches to balancing cost vs. return, generating organic site traffic, and customer loyalty for companies at various stages of growth.

As a nationally recognized speaker and thought leader, Norm has championed a variety of products and brands to generate sales of over $1 million in sales monthly.

Throughout his career, Norm has sold over 100 million dollars in sales between his products and services and the opportunities he has brokered for clients. Today, in addition to running a diverse catalog of companies including AMZ Club and PRReach (The world’s first video press release company), he focuses on guiding individual sellers, brands, and manufacturers to worldwide dominance on Amazon and top-earning sales sites.

With a work hard, play harder approach, Norm’s philosophy has always been to steer and direct his entrepreneurial footprint by owning each step of the development and procurement process. 

Find the Full Episode Below

Yoni Mazor 0:06
Hi everybody, welcome to another episode of prime talk today I'm excited to have a special guest. I'm finally having the legendary norm, Farrar. Norm is the co-founder of private label Legion, which is a leading e-commerce sales community. But he's also doing many things. He's also a podcast host of the popular e-commerce show called Lunch with the norm. And he also is involved with many other industry solutions, which we're going to touch on more during the episode. In the meantime, Norm Welcome to the show.

Norm Farrar 0:33
Hey, thanks for having me.

Yoni Mazor 0:35
My pleasure. So today's story and the episode are going to be all about you the story of Noah Farrar you're going to share with us everything. And you know, where were you born? Where did you grow up? Where do you go to school? How did you begin your professional career station to station until we reached where you are today in the world of E-commerce. So without further ado, let's jump right into it.

Norm Farrar 0:54
We don't drop listeners.

Yoni Mazor 0:57
This is going to be a good one. There's going to be an exam you know, I'm very excited because a lot to embody here and you know, it's, there's a lot to unpack. So

Norm Farrar 1:07
Go ahead. Okay, so where would you like me to start, sir?

Yoni Mazor 1:12
Early beginnings. Where were you born?

Norm Farrar 1:13
I was born in a small town outside of Montreal.

Yoni Mazor 1:18
That's Canada. Right? So that's Oh, yeah. Montreal, Montreal, Quebec. Yeah. Quebec, Canada, because I think it's also Montreal somewhere in some states. But okay. So when you grew up your parents worked in industries and were involved with what kind of I was in my environment.

Norm Farrar 1:31
So in the beginning, my dad was in sales. So he was a sales guy. My mom was a stay-at-home mom at the time. And we lived in a place called Chambly Szombathely, Quebec, which is just on the south shore of Montreal.

Yoni Mazor 1:47
Sounds French, as a French name.

Norm Farrar 1:49
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, my background is French English. So I lost it, though, because we did move in my younger years. But yeah, my dad at the beginning was like a sales commission. I think it was commissioned sales. But he ended up becoming a crazy serial entrepreneur. I mean, that's the only way that you can

Yoni Mazor 2:15
Put in a nutshell, things he was involved with, you know, on the entrepreneurial side. Well,

Norm Farrar 2:19
One of the big things was going back to where I live, there was a factory there called Bennett's and he ended up being the co-owner of benefits, and it employed about 1200 people. But during that period, he was involved with all sorts of other industries all week, mostly shoe-related. So he made all the and this is where I kind of got this he made all these parts that other shoe companies wouldn't do. It was sort of the harder part or just the unsexy part of the shoe. So that's kind of where I got my idea about just going after unsexy items. Those are the ones that you make your money on. So but he was involved with that he had a skate factory with an NHL hockey player, which I don't know if anybody would know but that would be Gary Dorn. Hard. Hoffer him they had an extreme

Yoni Mazor 3:12
Skates as a ski that for skiing. Yeah, skates,

Norm Farrar 3:15
No skates for hockey. Got it. He had a company that was called ruse skates. And at the time, it was probably the best skate on the market. He was involved with tools and dyes like a guy making just a wide variety of different things, all that I mean, it was much diversified.

Yoni Mazor 3:37
Nice. Okay, so you grew up in that environment is very interesting and yourself when you were growing up. We also like, you know, trying to do business at an early age or trying to make money on the side and all these varieties of things and trying to make an extra buck.

Norm Farrar 3:50
Yeah, you know, I mean, as far back as I can remember, it was either I was funny because I was at an event just recently, and we were talking about, you know, people making 50 bucks for shoveling like a driveway. I remember going out there and it was you know if you got $2 you know, you were you're happy and you know, doing the lawns and doing all the neighbor’s lawn. So that's where you start you made your money. My dad, it was right at the beginning. You know if I had time off, I was working at the factory. So it was sweeping floors or if it was cleaning like the there was a wax build-up scraping the wax off. And this is my pet as was my pay. It was 10 cents an hour plus all the pop I could drink all the soda

Yoni Mazor 4:42
was that better than money when you're growing up all this pop drink a pop or soda, guys? Yeah, they call it a kind of Bob. Okay, I think this is a very good, amazing framework for you growing up in this kind of environment. I was probably going to, that's where a lot of the seeds are well planted for your character to be able to do so many things later on. During your career, so let's touch you know, graduating high school and you know, going into higher education if at all.

Norm Farrar 5:05
Yeah, so I graduated I dropped out of high school. So I dropped out and ended up going back to high school. I met my wife in high school. So I still my wife, I think, but yeah, so, you know, we've been together for almost 40 years. So, yeah, we met when I went back to high school after I dropped out, but ended up coming back to high school because I caught TB. And I had to do tuberculosis. Yeah, yeah. So, wow, I was working. When I dropped out, I was working for my dad. And then I got that. And I couldn't do anything. I, I couldn't get payment from the government. I couldn't get like, I lost a lot. I had my apartment. I mean, it was okay. Like I was living, okay. But I had to go to school or decided to go back to school because I wasn't going to get paid anyways, I might as well go and do something. So I went back and met her and started to take school seriously because I never took school seriously at all. And got into it. And then I decided that I was going to go to film school. So I went to a place called Humber College, which is probably the best film school in Toronto. And for practical, so this is all through college and went to my last semester, and I did start a company there. I started my first company in high school. My first company was a rock promotion company with four guys. And we didn't do much, but we had we were

Yoni Mazor 6:46
Just kind of Brady can promote ZZ Top just saying, yeah, there we go.

Norm Farrar 6:49
Yeah. So we almost, you know, did a few things. We did a few things. But it was nothing serious. But we hadn't like we were able to incorporate a company. And we went through the whole process. So that kind of got my feet wet. Then when I was in college, I was with a buddy. And we paid her way, a good chunk of her way with our film production that we did getting some government contracts. So we worked with at the time, it was a children's aid society. We had a couple of other small things. But yeah, it helped pay.

Yoni Mazor 7:23
Nice. So let's start slapping the years on this. So what year was that? When you're I guess

Norm Farrar 7:26
That was back in the 80s? Yeah,

Yoni Mazor 7:28
Early, which 8081 82?

Norm Farrar 7:31
In around there. Yeah.

Yoni Mazor 7:33
So that's when you already kind of you launched a company and you just graduated out of film school you dropped

Norm Farrar 7:38
Out. So stupid. Well, I guess I wasn't because it got me into a whole bunch of other things. But it was my last semester and I dropped out my last semester. And anyway, I dropped out. I started I had like, these two people approached me. I ended up working for this, this independent film guy who was doing commercial films, so I got to do everything. It was cool because we were doing General Motors training films. So we did about 23. And they were all on Laserdisc.

Yoni Mazor 8:14
Oh, wow. Laserdisc, the early 80s. Do you say?

Norm Farrar 8:16
Yeah, they wear these clothes discs that people don't probably don't even remember, but it was like cutting edge at the time. And I got to sometimes, I was allowed to go out and shoot my own thing and brought out a, like an assistant. And we just set up and did shop. And most of the time, I was acting as sort of the second camera person, or just working as a PA. But I got my chops into it. Yes. Producer assistants, Assistant. Yeah. So I ran and grabbed coffee, you know, Assistant, I think, yeah, that's exactly what just making sure everything was there on time and coordinating things. But it helped me multitask. And I've learned I was telling somebody else's recently the story, but I learned one thing, and this is when I first met this company, the only reason I got that job is because of something I learned from one of the profs in film school, they said that if you ever get on a film, shoot, it is a non-union. If you get it on a film, shoot, the first thing that you do, even if you're getting nothing is you buy the coffee. So every morning I bring in the coffee for everybody that the director and the producer, you know, we hit it off, and then I got a job offer that was I think better than I thought back at the time. And then it just led to other things that didn't last very long because I didn't like it. It wasn't very action-packed. It was very boring.

Yoni Mazor 9:51
I guess it was an exception for you in terms of you know, career and job.

Norm Farrar 9:54
Next thing I went back I started working with my dad very briefly by If I ended up in the grandfather clock business, so yeah, I was I mean, I made grandfather clocks for Bolivar and other companies. So

Yoni Mazor 10:12
It’s a grandfather clock. What does that mean? The ones you hang on the wall? Oh, well,

Norm Farrar 10:15
Those yeah, those are mantel clocks. And you had the wall clocks. But these were all wood products, solid wood products. And the big grandfather clocks that would stand in the corner that would have the the

Yoni Mazor 10:27
Time was an American company based in New York City, I think in Queens. So we

Norm Farrar 10:33
Got a division. Yeah, the Canadian version of this. And then we had a couple of other large clients out. This is interesting, my dad decided that he was going to, he had this very large furniture. This is another company that had a large furniture company, and he decided that he was going to no longer get into it. So I bought, I bought the company from him to continue with the wood and kept the contracts, and ended up making grandfather clocks. Now, the unfortunate problem here was that was the time of Brian Mulroney where GST and not GST, but the NAFTA came through. So in one night, my complete business was wiped

Yoni Mazor 11:22
Out. Okay, let me go through this already in the 90s. And after I had the Clinton administration and all that, so back in the 80s, this is Reagan administration or bush?

Norm Farrar 11:32
I think it was like, let me think

Yoni Mazor 11:35
I know where they are. I'll let you know about the NAFTA the North American free trade agreement. An agreement, right. So between Canada Mexico, US there's the ability to create some cross-border, you know, the flow of goods. So how did it wipe you out, though? Yeah. What was the element?

Norm Farrar 11:50
Well, because there was a, we came down to one company, Howard Miller, Howard Miller is a very well-known furniture company that made grandfather clocks, but their shift their one shift, one shift, made more clocks than my clocks could make in a year. Oh, yeah. So but we had like, we were handmade clocks. It was solid woods, they were producing particleboard. But at the end of the day, people wanted a lower price. They could supply a lower price more diversified selection. So I lost

Yoni Mazor 12:28
So how did the NAFTA sugar anything because these

Norm Farrar 12:32
Are all in Canada now. They were free to trade.

Yoni Mazor 12:37
Everything got it. So you're based in Canada, your competitor’s best in the US. Free Trade leveled the playing field. So now they can't get taxed as much as they used to be by the Canadian government so they can penetrate the Canadian market and wipe you out? Yep. Got it. Okay, 90 cents overnight. Wow. Okay. Some drama. Some scars. Yeah. Okay. There we go. Okay, so this is what our mid-80s or late 80s?

Norm Farrar 13:00
Yeah, I'm not going to get my time right on this, but I would, I would think it's probably mid

Yoni Mazor 13:06
The 80s. God. Okay, so what's the next move for you?

Norm Farrar 13:09
Okay, so the next move was to get into the promotions business. So I got some training, I worked with a company for a very short period and just got to understand the promotions industry. And that was, you know, like, trinkets. They call it trinkets and trash for all the tchotchkes like coffee mugs and pens and all that stuff. Swag. Swag. Yeah, swag. Well, they call it bling or swag nowadays, right. But I ended up going into that field. And this is not a good story. This is a horrible story. But

Yoni Mazor 13:50
Because hopefully there are good lessons, but go ahead.

Norm Farrar 13:51
Oh, yeah, yeah. So I'm coming off of like, I'm, I'm coming off of the failure with the clock business. So you're not happy about that. But you're now you're going into this other thing where there's lots of money to be made. He's just trying to figure out how to approach it where you can make more money, and got involved with this company. They approached me and said, hey, you know, would you like to come work with us. And because I was doing a lot of sales. So people knew I was doing a lot of sales, and this company approached me. And they asked me to become a partner. So I became a partner with them. But I was very naive. I didn't, I didn't have the business acumen that I've picked up now. So back then it was wow, they just want me to be a partner.

Norm Farrar 14:37
Yay. And what I understood was that my portion of what was going on like there, they paid off their operating line, if I invested 25,000 bucks. So it would be even and we'd be able to go forward and invest in machinery and all this other stuff, embroidery machinery and, you know, screening machinery. Anyway. I'm driving in a car with one of the other three, there's a fourth guy that still hadn't put in his 25. And all of a sudden, I hear him talking about what they meant, we're over the line. Our line was 425,000 bucks. And I'm just lost because he doesn't realize that I just put in 25. And we're supposed to be at breakeven. So he's talking about, you know, what are we going to do? How are we going to meet payroll, blah, blah, and blah, blah, blah, blah, he hangs up? And then he looks and I just knew when he looked at me that something was up. So I sat down, I talked to these guys.

Norm Farrar 15:39
And they said don't worry about it, we'll work something out. Something’s going to happen. Don't worry. And it turns out, I did have to worry. So I did. I didn't tell my buddy, who at that time, I didn't know at all. But I called him and said, don’t put your money in there. Either. This is a scam. Something's happened here. So he didn't say he was saved the 25 these guys have gone and taken all of their assets. And they've protected everything. So all their houses and cars. I hadn't. So this is a joint agreement. All of a sudden, the banks came after me for 425,000 bucks.

Yoni Mazor 16:20
Oh, yeah. Okay, so let me get this straight. So these a bunch of partners, they, they had all their the essence of the company, when you came in, kind of all on you and you take the personal guarantee, what about all the liabilities of the company, while they washed himself out? And this is himself or the other corporation and you backing everything up? They're off the hook. That's a play that they did on you.

Norm Farrar 16:41
Yep, that's exactly what I did. So I'm, I'm in my 20s. At that time, I'm thinking on paper, I'm worth a million-plus. So turns out that all this happens, now this happens. The day my wife gives birth to my first son. That's when I find out about this. So it was not happy times, you know, with what we were, you know, just

Yoni Mazor 17:05
Hawaii was that let's start to the year if you can, you should know the year. We're there for this, Kelsey.

Norm Farrar 17:10
Well, yeah, this is 1991. Now, this is Hayden 1991. So it would have been October 1, 1991. Was it when I found out about this? And then what do you do? Well, bringing Hayden out of the hospital, in his carriage. On his first day out of the hospital, my car with my wife was going over to the lawyer's office. That was day one. The first hour out of the hospital. It was such a shock. We were like, well, especially me. I was in Shell Shock. Like I had no experience. I was more in sales than anything. I trust these guys. So absolute shell shock. I didn't know what to do. I thought life had ended. I did. I thought, right? No, we lost everything. Because I had to declare bankruptcy. I didn't know how to handle it. Do you know? And so I had like everything. Everything a young guy would have that thought he had money. I leveraged myself to you know, it was I think it was within my means. But looking back at it, it was probably over-leveraged. Like I had two nice cars. I had a nice house I had I mean, you name it all

Yoni Mazor 18:28
The comfortable life as you knew it's very comfortable. Yeah, we recalculate it and you have to kind of, you know, demote yourself and you're with your standard of living, and this $400,000 worth of dead, they grabbed whatever they could and wiped you out to kind of, you know, really degrade yourself?

Norm Farrar 18:45
Oh, yeah. You know, you have to grasp that. And as alike, especially every entrepreneur has an ego. Even though I was a new entrepreneur, I still had a big ego, right?

Yoni Mazor 18:59
And OPI Yeah, they call.

Norm Farrar 19:01
That's one thing that I see a lot of younger, or people that are just getting in and they have their first hit that some people you know, they get a little cocky. And it's like, all right, be cocky, but just remember, it's going to come back twice as hard when it's the other way.

Yoni Mazor 19:19
Yeah. Okay, so what was the next step for you? What is the next move? After all the craziness declares a backup procedure, I assume. Okay. So that's it. You are leaving.

Norm Farrar 19:31
Yeah. So then after that, I had the guy that was involved with the 25,000 that I saved. It turned out that another door opened because I couldn't do anything. I had seven years I couldn't do anything with my credit. It was all gone. So we teamed up and we got a and this is a long story because there were a couple of glitches and hurdles over this period. But we got involved with the train it’s in the trash business again, you know, pens, key chains events. But we did one thing a little bit different. We looked, and we did research in the marketplace. And we noticed that there's 16,000 people, companies, they're two people operations at gross margins of 23%. And they had average sales of 300,000. Well, that kind of sucked. Because between the two of us, dividing that up is not a lot of money. Yeah.

Yoni Mazor 20:25
60 $70,000 divided by two entrepreneurs, it's, it's not a lot of money. Yeah, it's not like a McDonald's franchise, we can make a few million over time, right? So how

Norm Farrar 20:33
Do you figure this out? And what we decided to do was, first of all, and we talked to some of our, like, our main client, and the main client, like what we were always we were incredible at customer service. Our clients loved us, everything we did if it was good, bad, or ugly, we were on the phone with them. And that's what they liked. So Hershey's was our main client, one of our main clients at the time. And we needed to get funded. We had no I couldn't get funding, he would have been struggling and didn't want to take the risk. So Hershey's, and if hajis is listening, I'm sorry, but this is what happened.

Yoni Mazor 21:12
They paid us versus Canada, or she's in the US, or she's us. Or sorry,

Norm Farrar 21:17
You. She's Canada, and I got and they paid cod, or cash in advance for an order. And so it wasn't a tonne of money. It was 15 grand. But that got us going. We got our product, it was a probably around 50% profit there, which gave us a little bit money going forward.

Yoni Mazor 21:38
I think they apologize as far as I checked her. She's doing great. They're printing money there. We love him. We still love you. Yeah, the chocolate is still sweet, you know?

Norm Farrar 21:48
So, so anyway, we were looking at perceived value. That was the very first thing you hear me talk about it all the time. Everything is perceived value, if I'm selling a $1 pen or this mug, you know if they're selling it for three bucks, how can I get 450 for it. And it was simple. It had to be different, it had to look like there was quality, even though it was the same thing. So we would box or mugs and it would be custom cut. So you know the cup would fit right in. And when you got it, there'd be a little inspection sticker that said this was inspected for whatever we did, it was short. So I remember we did like a quarter-million shirts for one of the beer companies as a case stuffer. And we were sitting back there, like poly bagging and getting these all done and putting an inspection certificate in. Everybody on the team was working, day and night, day and night to get them out.

Norm Farrar 22:45
But at the end of the day, when you got this shirt, or when you got this mug or when you got this pen, everything was on it was what was our phrase on time every time exactly like you ordered it. And all of a sudden, instead of this 23% gross margin, we were getting 45% gross margins. And within months, we were in the millions in sales in every fortune 500 company and his mother wanted to be working with us. So we expanded. This got me into getting into systems. My partner didn't want to get into systems I wanted to because we were experiencing hyper-growth. And I couldn't keep up with it. We were it was day and night, you know, non-sleep. So I started creating systems and operations.

Norm Farrar 23:36
And then we also want it to behave to leverage what we're doing and have more control on delivery. So we created more of a vertically integrated company where we bought the embroidery machines, we bought the screening operation, we bought a courier company at one point and the fulfillment and all within Ontario or Toronto, at least, we're able to turn things around. We had a beautiful office, other people in the promo industry were kind of dingy. For the most part, it was dingy or very low level, we were professional. And we also got involved with events and all sorts of other things. So we were working at a lot higher level than most promo companies at that time. And it paid off.

Yoni Mazor 24:25
Nice. Yeah, you guys put the extra touch, the extra effort you experienced was differentiated with that touch, you know, the extra touches you guys put into it and that, you know, you know, further boost that skill that you guys were able to create virtually integrated makes you even more of a beast of a master. Okay, so what was the next move? What was the next step?

Norm Farrar 24:43
Well, the next one is one of my greatest moments, I think because I was able to I always tell people to take advantage of an opportunity, whether you can do it or not. I mean, just take advantage and figure it out. So I was at a large, like a fortune five company we were, we had a contract. And we were in their office. And I was down like in multiple offices, we had our facilities. So that was another thing we did, we'd go into the fortune five, open up an office. Well, I'd flown down to California and everybody was ticked off. They were just like, scowling in the purchasing department. So, you know, I went out to lunch with the purchase VP of purchasing, he was from

Yoni Mazor 25:30
Worth mentioning company, or not,

Norm Farrar 25:32
I'd rather not go I got. But anyway, the I, I went up to lunch with the guy. And he was telling me that the reason for all of this happening was because they were their non-contractors were pissed off that it was they were getting paid within 240 days, and they thought they'd get paid in 30 or 60 days. So they were ticked. So it just so happened, I hit it at that time, where everybody was calling, and they were all just it set everybody's mood up to be horrible. So during the lunch, I'm sitting there going, I'm a contract I like I'm I am one of your contractors, I get paid 30 days at midnight. Why don't you let me be your purchasing department for non-contracted suppliers? I'll take the heat,

Yoni Mazor 26:30
All on, hold on, let me get this straight. So you have a client, you go to, you know, get a flight to California to meet them, you have lunch. And you see everybody's kind of grumpy. And the reason is that some suppliers are paying 30 days, some others or non-contractors, they pay them 200 days and. So they're creating all this friction. So you see that he's saying you pay me 30 days, let me take care of the rest. So basically, you're they're going to go to all that they want to source goes through you, they pay you in 30 days, you take care of all the rest.

Norm Farrar 26:57
So all the meal was, let me do that. So he's kind of intrigued, and I said, you pay me 30 days on the diet. I'll pay them in 90 days. So I get to play with the money that's in the bank, and we're talking millions and millions and millions of dollars. So I get that 30 days, or that 6090 Day spread. Plus give me 5% and 5% 5% of the invoice. Wow, that's you. And so it didn't happen that day. But within weeks, I was this fortune five hundred, none or purchasing department for non-contracted suppliers.

Yoni Mazor 27:38
But what was the benefit for them if they already were able to extend them for 20 days Plaza got

Norm Farrar 27:43
All these people were off of the purchasing departments back so they could do their job and deal with the contracted suppliers and not take the heat. All these non-contracted suppliers ended up loving me, because I was paying them and they knew in 90 days, they would get paid because I would pay them on the. so. This lead

Yoni Mazor 28:03
To inefficiency the on your client-side is that inability to handle this at scale, their biggest scrambling, or the whole Oh, it

Norm Farrar 28:11
Was probably for them, it was probably just they weren't contracted, they were going to play a few games, you know to leverage the cash that's in the bank for them. But it was causing a tonne of friction. So it was probably a lot cheaper for the company to give me a few points on those than to have and I'm not talking that off. I'm talking about every location around North America. So

Yoni Mazor 28:40
The advantage for them now basically they made a bad business decision, you know, to put all together and scramble it and have different terms with everybody and, and all that labor, all that aggravation. It's causing them a lot of time and money, right? Just saying enough of all that you were the one year to go demo to you facilitate everything now they can focus on whatever they need to do to run the business.

Norm Farrar 28:59
Yep. And I mean, the cash that came in and went out was crazy. I remember at the time. This is back in the 90s again, but just flying down the highway, they needed tickets a tonne of tech quarter-million dollars’ worth of tickets to the masters. And I had to call my bank because I had to happen right away. She says golf, right? The Golf. Yeah. And so I had to call them and I said look, I need any bridge financing for just a few days. I need a quarter of a million dollars. I've got to get this out today. And I was in my car when all this happened with one of those big brick phones. And anyway, as they did it like it was I didn't sign anything. They just did it. Because the money was just flying through nowadays would never happen. It would never happen back then. My relationship with one of the larger banks, but a smaller bank where I was living. I just had that reputation that you know, everything was and I had, like the funds in the bank Think back this up, it's all cash liquidity was abundance and you know, before it, okay, so that was kind of a peak moment for you having the irregular promotional business but, you know, being able to score big with this, you know, with this entity and facilitating their buying needs. Okay, what's next?

Norm Farrar 30:17
You? Well, this gets me, this ends up getting me into EECOM because they call me into the office one day back in the 90s. And they said, hey, you know, we've heard about this, we want to take this pan or this mug, and we want to put our logo on it. And we want to have this the dealer on, you know, either one side or the other side. So it's simple nowadays, but back then nobody could put up this Co-Op sort of site, right? I didn't even know, I knew nothing about the internet. I knew nothing at all about it. But some of the guys, I was paying in those 90 days were happy with me,

Yoni Mazor 30:58
Guess what? They know, they made

Norm Farrar 31:00
The site. They launched the site, and I got paid, which and then I paid them. That was my start. Other companies saw what we were doing. And now they were calling us. Wow, I saw what you did with this company. Can you do it with that company? Yes, we can. And that's how we started. And then from that, we started this other site called Creative sparks, which was one of five maybe print-on-demand companies at the time. So we created a corporate identity site where anybody in the world could create that we would create their logo, their letterhead, their envelopes, whatever it was, at the time, we cut a deal with an Indian company that would do the logos for 60 bucks. And then we, if we use the logo, in it, it was three weeks, if we did that a logo in three weeks was around 400 bucks, I think it was 397 or something. But if they bought it right off the bat, like within 48 hours, it was three grand if they bought it, like in 72 hours it went that so it was a sliding scale. But we were only being charged 60 bucks. And it was just such a beautiful,

Yoni Mazor 32:19
Though the urgency and the timing of the party of timing created, you know, the higher cost tiers and it but you guys the costs were the same, the turnaround within the company could be 24 hours every two hours, same class.

Norm Farrar 32:29
Yeah, it was the same cost lot. And we knew just based on the model that the quick turnaround, like the 48-hour turnaround, or three grand, most people wouldn't go but they'd go for the next one, which was the next tear down. And I'm just going by memory, but I'm thinking it was 1500 bucks. So they would go for the 72 hours rather than the 48 hours and they would save that much money, they think they're getting a deal. And again, it just comes to presentation.

Yoni Mazor 33:00
Yeah, the packaging is brilliant here, you know, baby, you know, the, you create a business model out of nothing out of scratch. So it's pretty amazing, pretty innovative, and all within kind of E-commerce, commerce demand. Okay, what's next? What's the next?

Norm Farrar 33:12
Move? Okay, so during all this time, we were still doing the promotions. And we were in China. This is back in the 90s. We were in China doing business sourcing, and back then it was t-shirts and hats and a bunch of different things. China wasn't organized like it is now. And we'd go through the Hong Kong board. I don't know if you have ever seen the old catalogs, as you'd, you'd have like a series of encyclopedias almost. And you'd have to flip through the jewelry one or the other. And then you'd have to make a request and it was a pain in the butt. But we were doing this back in the 90s. And I think like if you went to China, the only thing that was even close to being back home was drinking Coke. And coke would be warm, you know. But it a lot changed now anyways, when we were doing that my family saw what we were doing. And my dad again, this is the entrepreneur side, right after creative sparks. He came up and he said, you know, would you be interested in getting in with my brother, Steve, and my dad and doing this factory in Taiwan. And what we would be doing is we were starting to get into EBA foam. So it was for cosmetic foam for women. So I don't know if you know

Yoni Mazor 34:42
What’s an acronym for oh, I

Norm Farrar 34:43
Forget what it is.

Yoni Mazor 34:45
What is this material?

Norm Farrar 34:46
It's foam. It's a well, it depends on the density, but it's a type of foam there is and anyways women use a cosmetic foam or any woman that's listening right now. They know that when you take your makeup off, you use these triangles and wedges. And one of the downfalls was it became unsexy over some time because they take on this yellowish look. So my dad hires this chemist, and he and this was all my mom, she came in from Walgreens or Walmart one day, she says, Can't you make these and so my dad looking absolutely, there's no market for this. But there's a huge market for it. And he bought this very expensive machine and brought on a chemist to figure out how to make it just pure white all the time. Anyways, that was done. And we were getting lots of orders I wasn't involved in, but he was seeing what we were doing overseas, can we not do this overseas, and save a lot of money. So I looked into it, and the machine ended up going over to Taiwan. We hired, this husband and wife team to be the general manager. And we opened up this contract manufacturing facility in Thai Chung in Taiwan. And then it was crazy.

Yoni Mazor 36:13
Hell broke loose. It was at hell broke loose, you guys exploded. Crazy.

Norm Farrar 36:19
We started I remember my business, my brother that got in here. So we were working with this company that did would handle stamps, okay. We were only given the very tiny piece of EDA that goes in there the compression, you know, kids play with these vulcanized rubber, you know, stamps. And so my, he goes back and he said talks to the guy, the purchasing guy. And he said, you know, would you be interested if we could do the whole stamp, the vulcanized rubber, the wood. And we weren't sure if we could get the wood because it was a maple. But we're able to match it over in Taiwan. And we brought down the cost by 70%. Overnight, we became the world's largest wood-handled stamp manufacturer. And so what

Yoni Mazor 37:11
Are these types of products usually commonly used for what?

Norm Farrar 37:15
Usually for kids? So they'll put it in an ink pad and they'll stamp it?

Yoni Mazor 37:19
Oh, yeah. So yeah, got it. For the word stamps, you would put a little die boom, and it has a smiley face or whatever. It could

Norm Farrar 37:29
Whatever could be a Disney character could be like a licensed character. Right? And then we got into art stencils. And then we got into well, what's he’s the logical thing to go with? What handles stamps? Well, it's. So we bought an ink pad manufacturer, and now going the same route as the other. We became a very large, I'm not sure if we were the world's largest, but we're a very large ink pad manufacturer. We also got into markers.

Yoni Mazor 38:01
This is all in Taiwan, Taiwan, this

Norm Farrar 38:04
Is our second factory over there? That's already in the 2000s. This would be Yeah, probably 19. Yeah, probably early, early, early 2000. So then, at that point, the factory also did all the top cosmetic companies. So we were the manufacturer for Yves Saint Laurent ash. And now like, you name it, and we were doing their cosmetic plastic containers, right. So that worked out well. Everything was going extremely well. And

Yoni Mazor 38:42
This was another add-on to your you know, your business enterprises.

Norm Farrar 38:47
So this is completely separate. My dad had his thing going on. Like he had factories up here in Canada and in in the States. And this was a separate company that we set up that that was my brother, my father, and I that was running the sales out of it. And then that sold. So it sold quickly.

Yoni Mazor 39:12
Got a whole lot. So you have three business tracks, right? You had the irregular promotional company. The second one was the contract with the big company where you helped them with sourcing and all the cash flow. And then this company you created with your father, your brother, which sold very quickly. Yeah, it'd be a quick exit. Yeah. So okay, so what was the next station?

Norm Farrar 39:29
The next thing was Well, during this whole period, we had we were kind of forced into becoming a specialty packaging company because different people wanted different products. So we were doing a private label for records, CVS, Walmart, like distributors would be coming to us and we would just be private labeling and case a Ross, we needed to you know, get a private or sorry a specialty manufacturing facility. And we needed the warehousing space. So kind of that kind of came together. Then let's see, after that, I kind of did my own thing. And I started in Tampa with a tech hub. So I was bringing in technology. I had, I think, 678 different types of technology that I ran there for probably 567 years, something

Yoni Mazor 40:23
Like, Oh, what do you do we have 567 years where you would just invest it or you just assemble it all? Or both? No,

Norm Farrar 40:28
I brought in technology that I thought was interesting. And I was investing in either working with the inventor or creating some sort of street strategic partnership. But yeah, there were some pretty, pretty cool technologies. This was right around 2008 when I was getting ready to sell it. And a huge distributor that huge distiller, okay, came up to me, and they were wining and dining me for months, months. And I thought, Oh, two things happen. They gave me a deal that I thought I couldn't refuse. It was cash with a stock swap. This is where I learned very quickly, that setting up a cat, a Canadian company. And selling something in the US is two different things. A stock swap in the US one hand washes the other a stock swap here means I've got to pay my taxes on that stock upfront. And I would have had to pay more than the cash I was receiving from this distiller. So I had to turn that back. And I couldn't do it. I couldn't accept it. They didn't want to do any other type

Yoni Mazor 41:45
But let me get this straight. So this distillery company, which means alcohol business, right?

Norm Farrar 41:49
Yeah. Big you would know it. And they want

Yoni Mazor 41:53
To buy your tech companies. Yeah, five or six tech companies. And then these tech companies assume created solutions for that industry.

Norm Farrar 42:03
Yeah, some of it could. I was creating most of the technology was about fan-based solutions. So one of the things we were doing way back then, was creating what we called the sidebar, where you could be on your computer. But if you were into Allen Iverson, you could go and you could get like text messages from him before he started a game or if he was in China with the Olympics, there'd be you know, his entourage, video, and it would be brought back there'd be questions it'd be, it'd be a whole fansite. Or you could buy merchandise. One of the things that we were doing is creating an interactive shopping center, where if you were watching a Raiders game, at the time, like Randy Moss was playing, or friends was another one that we were showing you if one of the guys or if you wanted to buy something on the table, you clicked on it, and it would go to LL Bean. And you could buy it back then like the early 2000s. And so it just made this interactive screen. It was an interactive technology. The other thing we were working with was this Hi, this incredible PDF formatting tool that helped stop digital sharing. So it stopped piracy at the time. And it was just so cool, because you could compress videos, very, very low compression, put it in there, people can act like we had two tourism boards come to us car manufacturers come to us to do the complete tools, or tours of the car, because of low compression. Anyways,

Yoni Mazor 43:49
it sounds like it's all wrapped around, you know, engagement and experience with big brands, recognized brands and companies, you know, kind of being able to create all these enhanced experiences for, you know, their fan base or, you know, strategic partners. So this was interesting and said, we'll pay you X amount of cash, the wrestling, and stock swap. And because of tax implementation, the money they give you in cash will not even be enough to where you have to pay because of the stock that you got, yeah. So you turned down the deal. And what happened next. All right.

Norm Farrar 44:14
So then I meet up with another guy, just a fantastic guy. He tells me to meet him in Miami. And he goes here's a check. He wrote it out. He said, here's a check for 300,000 bucks and pushes it over. And he says that's the start. And I push it back and I said are you kidding? Like, just like that. Are you kidding? And this is at the height of tech like you know we're talking 2007 2008 Right? Anyways, we were negotiating renegotiating negotiating. And guess what happened in 2008

Yoni Mazor 44:55
The financial global financial crisis exploded and markets went down. And the whole bubble burst. So yeah,

Norm Farrar 45:02
At this point, I would have I wish I would have just taken nothing else happened after that

Yoni Mazor 45:08
Oh to shudder. Yeah. Okay. So what was the next move?

Norm Farrar 45:13
Day trading? Day trading? Well,

Yoni Mazor 45:15
God, it will fall on.

Norm Farrar 45:18
Probably did that for a couple of years kind of playing around with it,

Yoni Mazor 45:22
I was Mark is a Canadian market

Norm Farrar 45:25
Just know us NASDAQ high frequency.

Yoni Mazor 45:30
No. Technical.

Norm Farrar 45:32
Yeah. Like I was doing just equities I wasn't doing any like, I wasn't into the options, I wasn't that much of a risk-taker. But I was doing well at that I couldn't believe the money. Like Shane, we went and Shane and I glow. And I trade at the same securities facility is not in Toronto, he was

Yoni Mazor 45:58
Identify yourself with your money there for a company. Shane ended

Norm Farrar 46:01
Up doing it for the company that I trained with. And I threw in my own money and started playing. And it was like, why don't I this is, this is lovely, I'll just continue to do this. It's not that hard to work until it became that hard work. And anyway, I did a few things that I learned and like, and I played with this right now, I never go against my rules, you know, and when I did, I lost. So it was just learning, you know, at that point.

Yoni Mazor 46:33
Also, I got to ask. So in the meantime, did you still have the promotional business and the contract with the company with sourcing with that faded off over time? No.

Norm Farrar 46:40
So the exit with the promotional business. This was it was interesting. So Hudson's Bay, up in Canada, we were doing all of

Yoni Mazor 46:52
There we were white label is a department store like Macy's.

Norm Farrar 46:56
Yeah. But they had a catalog division that did all the corporate logos like Cadbury's was with them. Volvo was with them. And we were kind of the company behind the scenes. So they were just coming over to buy the company. They had proposed, then the president of that division left. And right at that time, the company I was telling you about. That's why you don't want to mention the name

Yoni Mazor 47:29
Of the company in California, you were helping them with, with, you know, being a purchasing agent, yeah.

Norm Farrar 47:33
Collapsed. And all of us why was

Yoni Mazor 47:36
That as it is it also be related to the global financial crisis or this or that

Norm Farrar 47:41
This is when we were getting into going over to Ty Chang. So it had collapsed, and all of their offices closed, all of the receivables that we were outstanding, no longer. And it was a killer because now I ended up with tonnes and tonnes and tonnes of receivables and also payables. I didn't want to have the same thing happen again. So I learned I was talking to somebody a week or two ago about them having a similar problem. And I said, look, what you do is you face the problem. If I didn't, if I hid, there would be more problems and facing the problem. So we had about 125 different suppliers that I had to give them the bad news. So either on the phone or by fax, let them know that this is a problem. I'm going to try to fix it. I knew that it was going to be tough because I was a one-legged stool. I had a lot of other businesses, but the high majority of what I was selling came from this one company. So it worked out in my favor because for the most part, the most part, almost every guy but he got paid 100% back and it ended up helping me with a few other projects that I was doing because I just kind of stayed in that business just brokering things, and nobody would have dealt with me if you know if

Yoni Mazor 49:19
I would have Yeah, you this time of crisis you do crisis management, you're able to fend the storm everybody seller was settled properly, which you know, could continue to grow the relationship and create more opportunities later on down the road. Okay, so now I want to touch base with you know, day trading. You did it for a while and what was the next session for you? I guess we're going to hope we're going to get to you know where we are today with E-commerce.

Norm Farrar 49:38
I kind of jumped right in like, you know, I took a bit of time off. But I did get into a buddy of mine who contacted me to say hey, you want to go to Vegas? We went over why I was ASM three or four. And

Yoni Mazor 49:54
What year was that? I remember it was 213. I think it was 14. ASAP. Amazing Selling Machine. Yeah,

Norm Farrar 50:02
Yeah, yeah. And anyway, I got to meet some, some contacts there. And you know, I started a brand, I started a few different brands, and started going out and learning more about Amazon. But one of the things I did right off the bat is because I had this eCommerce experience. I heard this doctor talking about from Ireland, about Amazon, and that he was a deer in the headlights like, he knew his profession. This sucked. He didn't want to be involved with this. And if he could only be the s&p at the time, he would be happy to give it up. I heard

Yoni Mazor 50:48
This is the moment Amazon came knocking on your door. Yeah, I heard it.

Norm Farrar 50:51
And I went, I can do that. And he looked at me, I said, I can guarantee you I can do that. And so he didn't know what I was going to brand. He didn't know the packaging. He didn't know what the product opportunity was. I had money that he gave me. And I did it all for him.

Yoni Mazor 51:08
So SMP is sourcing and production now. Standard and Poors. Oh, s&p, you got it. Okay, the ratings? Yeah.

Norm Farrar 51:15
So you know, if you have a few points, you'd be happy. So I created the two different product lines with them. One was in supplements, and back then, like I owned supplements that supplement club at the time, I think it was just when that came out, which is if you buy nowadays, I mean, it would be crazy expensive. But anyways, did it, it went off. And all of a sudden other people started to hear about that. I was not doing any public speaking or anything. I was always behind the scenes. Then, again, just doing my own thing. And in getting into the communities. That's I think, very important. If you don't learn if you're not involved with these communities, you'll never learn about what you have to learn and Amazon. It's a big beast. And you know, if you do it the wrong way you could get messed up. Anyways, I thought, well, you know what, I liked these guys, Matt and Jason over at ASM. And they were having an event in Mallorca. And I thought, oh, let's go

Yoni Mazor 52:25
There. Where's Mallorca? Spain, Majorca, Spain

Norm Farrar 52:27
More? Yeah. And so any wany way went over there. And that's where I met. Even today, probably most of my really good friends are on Amazon. Dima was there, Tomer was there. But I got to meet all these people that I never met before. And you know, we were all kind of going around the table. And you know, there were some beginners there, we were selling already quite a bit on Amazon. So we just kind of formed a relationship. And then Matt and Jason, like they saw some of the things that I was doing some of the differences because my skill set was a little bit different from others. And they asked me to speak in 2017 at their ASM, whatever that was at the time, but it was ASM 2017 in Vegas, and I was sick like I was sick, sick, sick to my stomach because I had to turn down my wife's sister's, be the matter more or be these. What am I trying to say?

Yoni Mazor 53:36
What happened? You have to be yourself because you have to get

Norm Farrar 53:39
A master of ceremonies. She wanted me to be his master of ceremonies at this small wedding. I turned it down because I can't speak in front of other people. Well, try speaking in front of 1500 people for

Yoni Mazor 53:51
Your essay you're getting saved because of the nervousness of the stage. Got it got it's not like you caught a virus. No, no, I'm probably going faster years but

Norm Farrar 53:59
Just being completely overwhelmed. Right. And anyway, as the day before I broke my tooth. So now I'm at the dentist trying to get that fix because that's all I needed. Right?

Yoni Mazor 54:14
What a rough start out like it

Norm Farrar 54:15
Was a rough start. But right after that. I was doing a few things I went about somewhere in between doing seller, the ASM, and going to Spain. I went over to Mexico and I went with the Illuminati which was now Helium 10 elite, and I got to meet Elena saris, and she helped me out she liked I was telling her my story and some of the stuff I was doing on Amazon. She got me to meet a bunch of people I got to meet Manny and ghee and Kevin. I like Kevin and I are very good friends now but that was just kind of a how are you? I'm normal. But Manny He and I kind of hit it off. And then I was way back. I don't know if you guys remember, but I was kind of CO hosting am pm podcast a bunch of times for updates, if there was an Amazon update, he would have me on, I was still I'd have to take these Stage fright pills before I did anything, because I'd be shaking and shaking. So that kind of brings me right on up to just getting to know more and more people. The same thing as I did with the company, there was an opportunity there. And I thought, okay, you know, share, share, share, I was getting to know more and more people. And now the network was just building crazy. And now there was this endless opportunity, whatever I wanted, I could do. So let

Yoni Mazor 55:48
I recap this. So to 1415, you go to Vegas, the ASM show, right event, you meet the doctor there, you know, you guys could collaborate and then you become an Amazon seller. You keep engaging with the community, they kind of discover your skillset, they put you on the spot, say hey, come share it, you know, sharing the stage, that opens you up with all the difficulties you break your teeth also literally break your teeth doing it. And then you get deeper into the works. And then you get exposed to more platforms like the NPM podcast, establish more relationships and the industry is growing, the industry is booming. And now pretty much you will notice this in a nutshell, you have your podcast your lunch with Norm very popular, very impactful. Private Label Legion, which is you know, a leading eCommerce sellers community. I think Tim Jordan is also involved there, right? Yeah. Tim Jordan, you know, you guys check out his episode, Tim Jordan, also a world you know, you know, a whole little story, or a whole other world of E-commerce that you can discover there. What else can you tell us? I'm not sure what else are you kind of involved with their industry in terms of providing a solution for sellers that you stamp your name on it? This is a no-brainer for our you know, the sponsor, political campaigns are very nice. It was approved by an offer. Yeah, go ahead.

Norm Farrar 56:59
Well, it comes back to being able to have that vertical integration again. So you have the managed services. And by the way, I do want to state that anybody hearing this is going to think that Oh, this guy is completely unfocused. I am laser-focused, I am laser-focused on what I want. And you know, the goals that I have. But it started with Amazon services. Well, if you want Amazon services, you have to have a brand. Well, because I came from the corporate identity side, I could develop the brand I already know about specialty packaging, so I can do that side of things. If you're looking for a product to be stored, the company can do that. If you want to get on to Amazon, that's fine PPC, that's fine. And if you want to go off of Amazon, like the kind of off to Walmart, it takes care of all that. So these are managed services. But if you want to be there and like you know, authority equals trust equals sales. Well, you got to have a really good website you have to have social media you have to have the SOS SEO done. So the company kind of takes care of all of that. Like it's a one-stop shop. Then it was okay, but what about so who's out there? So that one's calling a worldwide Yeah. Why would AFA lobby I always try to find great people Tim being one of them then you've got Alpha lobby who is if you don't know him he's incredible with sourcing logistics supply chain management. Just he's got a world of

Yoni Mazor 58:33
Today by the year 2021 going into 2022 No go global logistics is that it? This is the name of the game. So gather our partners where you're killing it.

Norm Farrar 58:42
Yep. So that's the other end so this is vertical integration and then PR each I bought PR reach from Rob burns a few years back and it was press releases well now it's all about content influencers so we have a content within PR reach its content marketing, its influencers its press releases and I think this year but the last year and a half we've launched our public relations company which has exploded so all of these things kind of encompass if you want to have a company we can do it all so that that's sort of my

Yoni Mazor 59:23
The vertical integration is all the chain reaction that is needed to carry credo know you know the right impact and growth trajectory for brands to excel and succeed in E-commerce and also on Amazon. Let's say that's the logic the laser focus logic that you have to build that chain reaction you know that you already did successfully in other industries and other things that you know touched earlier in your life experience so it all that started you know, start to make sense in one ecosystem environment called the E-commerce

Norm Farrar 59:49
Right and if even if you take a look at it because a lot of people will say, well, how do you run it all? Well, I don't. I oversee it, and my mornings for the readiest to meet up with Stephen meeting on Monday and Tuesday or Monday morning, I've got to Tuesday morning, I have to on Wednesday, I have one. And I kind of leave the afternoons a bit open. But even the podcast, there's a lot of work that goes into the podcast, but I have a team that does it, they get the guests, they hire everybody, and I go into the podcast booth. And here are the talking points. I look at it a few minutes beforehand, and we start talking,

Yoni Mazor 60:26
Man, it's amazing. Yeah, the word this is a skill of its own your ability to create, you know, teams and environments and solutions with the right talent, the right leadership, that is a skill of its own hard to replicate, FYI, but it's good. It's something to be proud of. And I think that it's also relevant if you are listening to this, and you find that you can recognize good talent and good leadership teams. And you encourage them and you have the vision, you have the understanding of the business environment and landscape, so you can kind of control and direction from above, but a daily operation, if you have a good team living it, it creates a magical result in a chain reaction of good things, that creates a better chance of succeeding in the ecosystem, I guess I want to start wrapping things around see if we got everything correctly so far, one way is in the Montreal area, but kind of relocate at some point to the Ontario area.

Yoni Mazor 61:09
But you know, getting our high school, we did a few music promotions, just to get started. And then you went to film school, you delved a little bit further with the film industry, and then you were in the clock business, you know, doing clocks, and then after, you know, one shot, I created, you know, the even playfield to compete and you got wiped out, and then you went into the promotional business, the first touch of it was very unsuccessful, you got stuck with that about 400,000 With the right better partnerships. So put your foot in the hole, but you know, gave you a tremendous experience, you gradually took yourself out of that hole by staying in that industry of promotions and you know, and all these swag, you know, products and we're able to you know, partner with the right guy and you know, build you know, a nice business out of that, which also created another business opportunity with the company in California where they, you know, came to you know, for purchasing needs, and they created its business model, which is great.

Yoni Mazor 62:05
And then your father and your brother came back around you know, you had the opportunity to partner in making you know, products for you know, cosmetics companies with a VA with sponges with wood stamps that succeeded and exploded very quickly and you made a quick exit. And then you also had an opportunity and while you're invested in the ring get involved with technologies, you almost want an exit with, you know, a distillery company but you know global didn't work out because of tax reasons.

Yoni Mazor 62:33
And later on the global financial crisis also kind of melted that opportunity away. You moved on are you already kind of departed from the other businesses and you moved on to day trading. That's also when he kind of mentioned Oh glow, which later on you partner with, with PRH and then 2014 15 You went to Vegas ESM course you got you to know Amazon came knocking you you were able to make a good partnership and become an Amazon seller yourself. And then s you can open up to the industry through you know, keep on attending to events and being part of the community and pm podcast exposure, you know, doing more stages. And then so as it stands today, you're part of the private label, Legion. You have lunch with non-podcast Hookah worldwide PR reach MC club. Yeah. What else?

Norm Farrar 63:20
I think that's pretty

Yoni Mazor 63:21
Good. That's a good roster. Yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah. So I think we got everything correctly so far.

Norm Farrar 63:25
Man, do you have somebody taking notes? Who was that? Just off the top

Yoni Mazor 63:29
Of the top? No, no, it's so yeah, this is kind of the story in the streamline of I know for sure. Thank you so much for sharing has been very robust, and full. And I learned a lot. So I appreciate it. Now I'll finish I want to finish up quickly with two more points. The first one is somebody wants to reach out and connect with you. Where can they find you? And the last point will be is what is your message of hope and inspiration for entrepreneurs listening out there?

Norm Farrar 63:48
All right. So the easiest email would be the norm at am z. So that's Alfred Mary zebra dot club dot club. Inspiration look. Especially for new entrepreneurs. You can have sleepless nights, you can have sleepless nights over things that and I can tell you, I heard this when I was younger, and I didn't believe it, that things are never as bad as you think. So as a young entrepreneur, you've got to be resilient. If you're not resilient, or if you can't grasp that, then you don't become an entrepreneur. But it's never as bad the things that you think are the absolute worst, absolute worst, will just be bouncing off your shoulders in 10 or 20 years. So you just have to write it out. So that's probably what I can see. And if you do see opportunity, if you have if you see it, and you could just look at it and if you see it, grasp it because it's all around us.

Yoni Mazor 64:51
Love it. Yeah. So resilience. You've got to have resilience. You see an opportunity to jump on it. Don't forget the resilience. You're going to need it to make it work. Yeah, that's kind of the name of the game. Beautiful stuff. So once Again norm thank you so much for your time and sharing your story with us today I hope everybody else enjoyed stay safe and healthy till next time all right thank you